284 | Made in Africa Products that Actually Better Africa with Valerie Bowden
Image of Valerie Bowden, founder of Crdle - a woman in a black short sleeve black dress in front of blurred white and brown background.
Our guest this week on the pod is Valerie Bowden. Valerie is the Founder of Crdle, a company she started after learning that Africa only has a 2% share of world trade and seeing so many incredible brands while living 8+ years in Ethiopia and traveing through 13 African countries. Crdle helps with talent aquisition and ethical product sourcing from Africa.
This episode is sponsored by the coaching company of our host, Zelizer Consulting Services.
Resources mentioned in this episode include:
Made in Africa Products that Actually Better Africa - an interview with Valerie Bowden
NOTE: While it’s not perfect, we offer this transcription by Otter.ai for those who are hearing impaired or who don’t find listening to a podcast enjoyable or possible.
SPEAKERS
Valerie Bowden, Paul Zelizer
Paul Zelizer 00:01
Hi, this is Paul Zelizer, and welcome to the Awarepreneurs podcast. On this show, we dive deep into wisdom from some of the world's leading social entrepreneurs. Our goal is to help increase your positive impact profits, and your quality of life. Before we get into today's topic, I have one craft. If you could hit subscribe and do a review on your favorite podcast app, it helps more people learn how to have positive impact through values based business. Thanks so much. Today, I'm thrilled to introduce you to Valerie Bowden. And our topic is Made in Africa Products that Actually Better Africa. Valerie is the founder of CRDLE a company that started after she learned that Africa has only a 2% share of world trade, and seeing so many incredible brands while she lived there for eight plus years in Ethiopia, and traveled through 13 African countries. Cradle helps with talent acquisition, and ethical product sourcing from Africa. Valerie, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. What an exciting topic. And even before we hit record, you got to do a big huge shout out to Emanuel Trinity at Era 92, who we both have become huge fans are very, very quickly.
Valerie Bowden 01:16
We're talking about eternity, we are super excited to see more and more brands like what you're doing with CRDLE. Like what Era 92 is doing that are bringing an impact lens and bringing more economic opportunity to Africa. It's so exciting to see that trend is exciting. And when you connected me to Trinity, it was just another reminder of why I love doing what I do at cradle because I just work with tons of Trinity's, and companies like human entrepreneurs like them all throughout Africa. And it's really exciting to see what's happening on the continent. So we're gonna get into all of that what you do, how you connect people, what you're seeing, before we do that, Valerie, if I'm a listener, I'm like, Who is this Valerie person? And why is she passionate about impact and business and Africa? Give us a little bit of the backstory there? That's that's a great question. Because I grew up in Fort Wayne, Indiana. So not there's not a lot of people from the Midwest who I think go to African countries and travel as much as I ended up traveling. But I came from a social work background. And after college, I went to Ethiopia for three months to volunteer with orphans. And when I got there, I found out that the nonprofit I was working with was operating illegally. And soon I realized that a lot of the other nonprofit that were well known in the US were just not doing what they said that they were doing. And I started to learn more about volunteering in the voluntourism industry and all the the challenges and problems with that. So it was very eye opening. And at the same time that I loved Ethiopia, I love the culture. I love the people, the food, the coffee. So everything about that was exciting. And so I went back to the US, I got my master's again in social work. And I could not get Ethiopia out of my head. And I just thought, you know, if Ethiopia surprised me so much, what are what are the other African countries like? So because I was young and out of grad school, and I didn't have a lot of money, I took a one way ticket to Cape Town. And my goal was just to backpack for maybe six or eight weeks to a few countries. And I started traveling and I met so many cool people along the way. And I started crossing borders. And I found out that countries are really safe. And soon I ended up deciding to do the Cape Town to Cairo route. So I went basically all the way from South Africa up to Egypt, going through 13 African countries, and I had the best time. Then after that trip, I moved to Ethiopia spent eight years there, and it really just lit a fire and the passion in me for what's happening on the African continent.
Paul Zelizer 03:52
Wow. And when was that? When were you there?
Valerie Bowden 03:55
So I did my backpacking trip in 2013. And then I moved back to Ethiopia in 2014. And just moved back to the US last year.
Paul Zelizer 04:03
Yeah, and you like literally fell in love with the country and literally fell in love. I understand.
Valerie Bowden 04:11
I didn't meet my husband along the way, who is Ethiopian? And that's I mean, that's definitely one of the reasons I ended up staying in Addis Ababa for so long.
Paul Zelizer 04:20
So along the way you and we talked before we hit record, similar background social work, in your case, community mental health, like from social work to social entrepreneur, is something we both share, tell us a little bit about that journey.
Valerie Bowden 04:35
So I mean, I was really into Nonprofits and Charities, I thought that that was my career path. And then as I was traveling African countries, I wanted to see what's happening, what's working, what's not. And because my experience in Ethiopia, volunteering showed me that not all charities are good. I was super curious. So in every country I've visited along the way I would visit tech hubs social enterprises Schools, charities, missionaries, and not not to say that all the charities and nonprofits are bad, like, there's certainly some great ones. But I've just came across so many that really weren't having the impact that they were saying that they were having. And I just started realizing that social businesses, when you're creating a good business, and you're hiring people and paying well, sometimes having like an environmental impact, at the same time, it was just creating so much of a better sustainable impact in the communities. And it really made me want to switch over to to business,
Paul Zelizer 05:32
very different community, but also somewhat, you know, similar challenges, or at least maybe adjacent challenges. I live in New Mexico, that historically marginalized state in the US the highest proportion of people of color in the country, and one of the least robust economic economies in the country, at least as measured by traditional when you talk to people here, like, do we need another nonprofit, they're like, Please, we do not need another prophet. In New Mexico, we need viable businesses that treat people well, that pay a living wage that can sustain themselves without like, you know, going with our handout to the government or to donors. And like you, I don't want to like in any way diminish nonprofits, I think they have an essential role. But that journey of like, is the nonprofit sector, the only way to have positive impact. When you ask people in certain communities, they're like, you know, we really are hungry for values driven, community focused business. So I just wanted to share that I heard a lot of that and still hear a lot about living here and talking to people in other less traditionally resourced places. That's a pretty common theme, at least in my conversations does that does that resonate for you?
Valerie Bowden 06:52
Exactly. Because at the end of the day, people want to work and they want to buy their own clothes and their own shoes and their own medicine for their family. And so when they have great jobs, that's what that allows them to do. And then it's sustainable as well. So you're not dependent on donations or money handed out to you. And in fact, a lot of the the African companies I work with, some of them had, you know, impact driven missions, one of them was trying to support gorilla conservation in Uganda, and they got so sick of all the strings attached to grants and donations. And so they started a business, and then they funneled the profits into real conservation. So, yeah, it's interesting to see to see that. And I think something else that I've seen with the businesses we work with is a lot of them do end up investing in the community in ways that a nonprofit would. So when we work with a coffee farmer, they'll often go to the community and say, Okay, and what can we do for you guys, and often the community will say, build us a school or build us a road. And, and so it's not that when you're doing business, you're not doing any other extra social impact, things are still getting done. And, and the cool thing is, it's done by locals who understand the context. And they're working with the community. And it's creating things that the community actually asked for on top of also creating jobs and having positions open for people to work.
Paul Zelizer 08:14
Absolutely. So that's the like, underpinnings of cradle like you said, All right. I want to start something I wanted to have this impact of bringing more economic opportunity and resources to Africa, that statistic 2% of the world's trade, like that's pretty eye opening, I don't know, the landmass proportion of like how much of Africa but I can picture it on a globe. It's a pretty big landmass. It's bigger than 2% of the land on planet Earth, right?
Valerie Bowden 08:46
Like, why is it somewhere billion people? Yeah, like, like,
Paul Zelizer 08:49
as you're traveling around and getting a sense of like, wow, there's like all this human capital here. But like, you're seeing like, there's real inequity in terms of what opportunities are there because of how a smaller percentage of world trade like how did that show up on the ground as you're backpacking through the almost the entire continent, what were you seeing there?
Valerie Bowden 09:14
I was seeing so many cool brands and products, and I just kept thinking, if this was back home, it would sell out, or you know, I could see this in Target or like a high end boutique. And what I found is that like a lot of African brands, were doing amazing products and just kind of lacked, like access to the market and had a hard time finding customers. And then at the same time, just because I'm American, I would see so many Americans who wanted to help African countries, and so they're donating maybe to charities or things I saw weren't really working. And I just thought like, if I could just show you how good these products are and how talented these people are, and kind of be the bridge to help facilitate business interactions. I just thought it would be So cool. And it's it's definitely been a really interesting journey. And I think the hardest part of what we do is just overcoming the stereotypes about 10 countries. And that becomes like the biggest challenge. And then once people start sourcing and buying from African brands, then they just want to know what's next, and what more they can buy, and what more they want more they can do.
Paul Zelizer 10:20
Cool. So all this led to cradle, when did you start cradle? And what was the original impetus behind it?
Valerie Bowden 10:28
I first started a cradle because I was living in Ethiopia. And I had started working at an outsourcing company that was us owned and worked in Ethiopia. And they started hiring, I think they went from like 100 people to 600 employees in one year. And so that made me really excited about the tech component and how African countries are quickly becoming the next tech hubs. And I just, I mean, I guess you could say I was like a multi passionate entrepreneur. So I really wanted to promote tech, outsourcing and ethical products. And I just kept seeing that just finding people on the ground was a big challenge. And I remember one day getting a call from IKEA. And at that time, IKEA had an office in Ethiopia, and even IKEA with money. And the desire to source from Africa was finding it challenging to find which companies to work with, and what products were available and the quality standards. And I just thought like if IKEA can't even figure this out, like they're like, how are other small businesses and social entrepreneurs in America gotta find these African brands that I talk to and hang out with and know about. And so that's part of the reason why I wanted to launch it.
Paul Zelizer 11:42
The social entrepreneur light bulb went off and you create a cradle like, what does the company do? Now, tell us a little bit about some of the brands in Africa that you're working with.
Valerie Bowden 11:53
Yeah, so our whole goal is to make it easy to source from great African brands that whether that sourcing talent, like if you have a remote position, or a virtual assistant or developer will connect you and kind of tell you the best country and the best onboarding process, and we kind of walk you through that. But we also do tons of work with products. So I guess we have about 100 African brands in 17 Different countries right now. And we work with so many different, really cool entrepreneur entrepreneurs. Like the gorilla conservation coffee is one of my favorite wants to promote. We work with another one called ima Dora that's in Mauritius, and they make swimsuits and the material is actually made from plastic pulled from the ocean. But it looks really cool. And you have to see it to understand it. But it's really awesome. And they're like they follow like slow fashion principles. And they only hire women. And we work with like smallholder farmers and Kilimanjaro. And we just do so many. There's just so many cool products. And every day we come across new entrepreneurs that we're excited to work with. Like, how
Paul Zelizer 12:58
do you bet there's a billion people, there's a lot of company caught today with a billion people. How do you decide which companies you're gonna represent? How much of it is like what you're seeing on the ground there? How much of it is you're getting those calls like the one you got from IKEA?
Valerie Bowden 13:17
Yeah, I mean, it's challenging. There have been a few, like companies that reached out to us, and we couldn't find what they needed. So they're like a large honey importer in the US. And they wanted like mass, major volume. And we couldn't match them, even though we looked. So now that we've been doing this for, for a while, we find, we kind of go on, like customer demand. So one of the biggest products people ask for is private label coffee. So we found a really cool supplier in Ethiopia that does that. And yeah, so some of its like what people ask for. And some of the times people will approach us a lot of referrals. And then at the end of the day, we try to find really quality companies that are 100% Made in Africa. And then we always help customers get samples and test the quality themselves just to make sure that everything does meet international standards and USP, the important stuff that yeah, there's so much potential I don't feel like we've really even scratched the surface of what's out there.
Paul Zelizer 14:17
And you're just mentioning some of the challenges and let's stick for a moment you have both a physical products importing, you know matchmaking service, if I can call it that. And then you also have an outsourcing and we touch some of the issues on the like outsourcing for tech help, whether it's VA or design or coding with with Trinity, which is why we were talking about you Trinity. But talk to us about some of the special challenges like when there's a physical product and you're bringing it in to the US or Europe. What are some of the challenges that you've run into and how do you help people navigate those challenges?
Valerie Bowden 14:57
I think one of the biggest challenges we have It is around what the buyers want in terms of certification. So we have a lot of buyers who will ask for organic certification or Fairtrade certification. And so we'll have these great companies, great farmers who are essentially organic who like they follow organic, you know policies, or they might even have a much bigger social impact than a fair trade company or logo would have. But they can't pay for the certification. And so we find a lot of buyers sometimes also don't want to, to do that, then they really only want an organic or only Fairtrade. And so that's, I think one of the challenges is that those certifications are so expensive. And it really rules out a lot of viable really good brands the process.
Paul Zelizer 15:45
Again, we've run that into we run into that in New Mexico with, let's say small farmers all the time. And if you're smart, you actually your dollar buying at a local growers market in downtown Albuquerque, from somebody who grows in the South Valley on land that's been in their family for seven generations, that has much more positive impact, then buying it Whole Foods and with the organic certification. And it's stamped a local in Whole Foods, but Whole Foods is owned by Amazon and the amount of dollars that ever would get to that small family in South Valley. And Albuquerque is very small, if ever, they probably wouldn't be in Whole Foods because they can't afford to. And it's just not the right scale. And so again, I think this is issues that are many kind of smaller markets in emerging markets are facing that sometimes these very well meaning when they originated labels and certifications like fair trade, like B corpse, I'm looking at you b corpse, B corpse are not always equitably distributed. Let's just say that there's a big conversation going on. I love what the B Corp movement stands for, but who can afford the time and energy to go through that we have to be very mindful of these certifications, because it's not always leading to the most impact in the communities we say we want to serve. Is that a fair thing to do? Would you agree with that Valerie
Valerie Bowden 17:12
100%. And recently, one of our new customers wants private label coffee from Ethiopia. And we were matching with them matching them with our supplier. And they were saying like, should we get organic coffee, and I was like, okay, technically this farmer has one farm, it's a bigger farm, right. So they have one firm that's certified organic, and the rest aren't certified organic. But they're literally right next door to each other, none of their none of their firms use. Like they all follow organic principles. It's just one has the actual certification. And so a lot of times, I think when you're sourcing from African countries, it's the same thing, like the farmers will have one organic farm. And so you're literally just paying more for that certification, even though you're working with the same farmer, same farming practices. And so it doesn't really make sense at the end of the day. And it's it's hard to convey that to customers, especially on packaging, labels and things like that. But yeah, there's a lot of room for improvement and more understanding that's needed,
Paul Zelizer 18:13
in addition to like those big certifications, and thanks for unpacking that with us. There's also just let's stay with copy. Since we've been talking about if you take coffee from Africa, and you bring in you want to sell it in the US, and not necessarily direct to consumer, but there's some sort of store online shop there health codes that Haftar or certain processes, you have to pay attention to tell us a little bit about navigating those processes.
Valerie Bowden 18:42
Exactly. So the more we get into this, the more support we're finding that we need to give. So we are starting a program now that will help register coffee companies and other companies in Africa with the FDA. So we'll register them and then we also are working now with our own US Customs clearing agent. So that way, the buyer doesn't have to do that. So we have someone on our team who's helping navigate that process. But the biggest problem, I guess the next biggest problem is transportation costs is really high when working with African companies. And it's something I wish I'm sure it can be solved. But I've seen a lot of deals fall through because the cost of shipping is often more than the cost of goods, and there's ways to go around it. So for example, if somebody wanted 60 kilos of coffee from Uganda, you know DHL or like an airline cargo might charge $15 per kilo and shipping. And so then what the way we've gotten around it is we we work on larger orders, so 500 kilos of coffee, then the price drops to only $3 per kilo for shipping. So yeah, it's it's hard for sometimes for smaller orders with shipping and we kind of started to we just got partnership with DHL to start lowering some of those costs. But yeah, shipping is one of the main main challenges I think they face.
Paul Zelizer 20:08
So in addition to help finding those more ethical sourcing, cradles able to help people with additional value by a helping people navigate least in the US, I heard you mentioned customs, and what some of the regulations and having staff that both on your team are familiar with this, as well as maybe some establish relationships with these organizations that if you were to show up as a complete newcomer, you're starting from scratch. You know, these organizations might not always be the most the most user friendly, right? Is that fair to say?
Valerie Bowden 20:47
Yes, exactly. So it all started when I was in Ethiopia. And I was like, people should do business in Africa. Like that's pretty the biggest social impact. And then people would say, okay, but who's the best coffee farmer, the best t shirt manufacturer. And so I was like, Okay, I'm start cradle, and I'm going to just show people who the best ones are and the ones I know who have really good quality. And then people start ordering and it's like, oh, okay, actually, how do you clear custom, and not everybody wants to have an import license, or figure out how to clear customs and stuff. And it's like, okay, so actually, we need to register people and help clear customs for them. So kind of like every single like,
Paul Zelizer 21:22
cost of shipping is through the roof, we gotta, we gotta crack that nut. So you're just like chipping away at the various issues. And I imagine having done this a little while, you're able now to help kind of proactively say, Hey, you're thinking of, you know, sourcing T shirts or sourcing coffee, whatever the physical product is, here's some of the issues, customs is an issue. Shipping is an issue, here's what you're going to see if you come in in maybe a less resourced way. And here's how we can proactively address some of those challenges. Is that Is that fair to say?
Valerie Bowden 21:55
Yes, exactly. I think, you know, there's so many people who want a source from Africa. And it's just so overwhelming and confusing, because it is a bit confident. And all these processes are really confusing. And so, yeah, we found that the best way we can do it is just to make it easy and simple. And I really enjoy it. Because after living on the continent for a decade, I've seen so many, like just grants and government projects, USDA legs, like, like all these aid projects that just don't work, or just really don't solve the problem. And so, even though what we're doing is so challenging, and we've had to work with a lot of experts on this to kind of figure out the process, I find it so rewarding that when a supplier says that we've actually helped them and they've gotten more customers because of us and things are actually flowing for them. It makes me feel really good that we are solving, like the root challenges. Yeah,
Paul Zelizer 22:53
cool. So let's do this in a moment, I want to come back and ask you some questions about what are the revenue streams recreate all if somebody was interested? How do they get started, I want to hear about some of the tech and VA support services you provide. Before we do that, I just wanted to take a quick break and hear a word from our sponsor. Are you facing one or more important decisions in your impact business, and you'd like an experienced thought partner to develop a plan about how to proceed in the complex times we're living. But you don't feel the need for an extended coaching or consulting contract that's going to cost you many 1000s of dollars. You're looking for an affordable, targeted, and time efficient type of support. Through Paul zelizer.com, I offer a strategy session package. These packages are ideal for entrepreneurs who are facing 123 immediate decisions, like how to increase your positive impact, fine tune your marketing strategies to get more results for less effort. launch a new product or service successfully, will refine your pricing structure. So it's both inclusive, and provides you with a great quality of life. You can find out more by clicking below. And thank you so much for listening to this podcast. So welcome back, everybody. Valerie in the second part of the show, we like to joke about putting on our entrepreneur glasses. So I think we have a sense of the issues. Now in the context. I want to hear a little bit of the stories of some of those companies, you've made a difference. But before we do that, just help us understand if you look at cradle right here right now, and took a snapshot of how you work as an enterprise, like how many on your team, how many clients do you tend to work with? What are some of your revenue streams? Like? What do you see looking at cradle as an entrepreneur right here right now?
Valerie Bowden 24:43
Yes, so we have I have three team members that are Ethiopian. Two of them actually live in Rwanda though they're going to school for international business, so they definitely picked a good, good company to to learn international business in the same time. I And so, yeah, we basically people will contact us and they want either like a tech service or product.
Paul Zelizer 25:10
And what's the balance there, like how many people are calling you up or physical product support and how many people are calling for tech or VA support?
Valerie Bowden 25:19
I would say about 70% Is tech at this point. It's especially after COVID. And the remote positions that are now just kind of the norm. We've seen a huge rise in in the tech side.
Paul Zelizer 25:36
That makes sense. Cool. So you have like three people, and you're helping people with these various parts. Do you like have some of your team mostly work on the physical products and some of your team mostly work with matchmaking and onboarding, more tech support?
Valerie Bowden 25:55
Yes, so my family members are pretty much focused on the physical product side. And so I deal more with the talent. And what we've done is we partner with a lot of people. So right now we're partnering with a local BPO company in Rwanda. And we were pitching like MasterCard Foundation, and a few other organizations and how we can train more BAs in Rwanda and give them like, real work experience before placing them. So I guess, I never feel like my team is small, because I have so many partners. Again, with like, the customs and all of that, that's someone I work with, just like a partner company. And so I, I guess it takes a lot of pupil to try to improve trade of trade with Africa. And so we're just finding really good companies along the way. And like a puzzle piece, everybody, just one part. And we're making it happen together.
Paul Zelizer 26:56
Nice. Give us an example, Valerie, like, let's stay at the physical product side of thing, like, what's a company where this partnership with cradle and these matchmaking services has really made a difference in terms of their sales, their quality of life, being able to meet some of their impact goals? Yeah, I
Valerie Bowden 27:14
think so. One of my favorite examples is this guy named Michael, who he for like, a decade, he's wanted to open his own cafe and have his own coffee line. And I was speaking to him and I was like, why don't you just why don't you just do that? Now? What are you waiting for, and I think he thought you had to have a lot of money. And so I I shared with him what we're doing with private label coffee out of Ethiopia, and I was like, you could, you could start your own brand right now it would bring in revenue, you'd have your own coffee line, and you could use that revenue to, to start to save money to open a cafe. And if the light bulb went off, and so he's getting ready to place his first order. This month, actually, we're working on everything for that. And it's, it's exciting to see someone who wanted to pursue their dreams and to finally do it. And then on top of that, to set him up with roasted coffee, which has a much better social impact than just the green coffee. So to help a small entrepreneur do it the right way, and to launch his dream and to do it in a more ethical environmental impact away than even like the large corporations.
Paul Zelizer 28:26
And we were talking before we hit record, while you're talking about the difference between roasted and green coffee. And and this is such a great example tell us a little bit like the food entrepreneur language would be like the added value or the value add. So the most typically somebody might like buy the coffee and ethically source it and all that and take green coffee beans, ship them to wherever, let's say in New Mexico, roast them here, but a lot of the value in terms of what you pay for, like the difference between craft roasted coffee beans and green roasted beans, there's like a really, really big price difference. Right? And the person who does the roasting oftentimes make much more money than the person who actually grew the coffee. And you're doing some very interesting work there to try to bring as much of that kind of value to the entrepreneurs, the farmers, tech people in Africa. Is that fair to say?
Valerie Bowden 29:24
Yes, exactly. Because that value added products 100% Made in Africa. The statistics are it creates like four to five times more impact. And it makes sense because for example with this coffee company, so not only is he buying coffee from the farmers, but then there's the transportation to the facility in the capital city is Ababa. There's all these really cool women who are roasting the coffee packaging it. He's getting the packaging made locally. So then the local printers making money. And then you know that team now has HR and marketing and cleaners and All kinds of things. And then like the local stores nearby benefit, because now you have all these people with paychecks who are going out to eat and going to cafes, and then their family benefits. And there's like this huge ripple impact when you have 100% Made in Africa. I think it's something that a lot of people don't know. For example, I know we were talking earlier about this, this chocolate bar I bought from Trader Joe's and not knock on Trader Joe's, but it says like Uganda on it. And then when you look at the back of the chocolate bar, it says product of Italy. And so what's happening is it's awesome that they're sourcing chocolate from Uganda and farmers, but it's actually being produced in Italy, and then to the US. And so the country of Uganda is not really benefiting that much. And then on top of that, it's like the extra environmental impact and going from Uganda, to Italy to the US. And so, you know, when I see chocolate bars that we work with suppliers who make chocolate bars in Madagascar, and so they're making it 100% and Madagascar, and then it goes from Madagascar to the US. And so not only is that the carbon footprint lower, but then again, like the whole community in Madagascar, around the chocolate facility is is benefiting besides just the farmers. So yes, value added is so important.
Paul Zelizer 31:21
And I want to highlight what just pull out the numbers that you quoted, I've seen similar maybe even higher, anywhere, you said about four or five, I've seen numbers as high as 10 to 20x. When you factor in the person who now has a more steady higher income, and they can send their kids to school and buy their kids shoes at a more reasonable rates. I raised a kid, I know what it's like to buy shoes for kids. And you know, money's tight, maybe you like stitch them together. But it's not really great for growing kids to wear shoes for a really, really long time. But if that's all you got you make it work. When you factor in all of those I've seen numbers more like 10 to 20x. When you see, yeah, when you keep the value in a community, especially a smaller community where people are hungry for meaningful, good work. But there isn't that much to go around the difference that can be made like those is certainly Yeah, we're talking like orders of magnitude here in terms of quality of life and sustainable livelihoods in communities like that. So this is just something I wanted us to think about as a community because we hear these terms like Fairtrade and organic and sourced in fill in the blank, Uganda, or wherever. But we don't always bring a very holistic lens and that multinational lens of the chocolate that's grown in Uganda, but then flown to Italy or wherever Made in Italy and then makes it to Trader Joe's here in Albuquerque or in Pittsburgh, are you there, Valerie, right, like like that version of the story of sea we're having positive impact is not as robust as it could be. And if we look carefully about value add and the synergistic effects, especially in emerging economies of really looking deeply at how can we keep as much of the value added parts of the process in the country is in the communities we want to effect, we can do orders of magnitude with the same amount of money just by being skillful at looking at it more holistically. So I so appreciate you unpacking that for us, Valerie.
Valerie Bowden 33:36
Exactly. And I was speaking to our supplier who does tea in Tanzania, and the same model that they're not just sourcing tea, they're actually packaging it and processing it in, in Tanzania. And, you know, they ran the numbers. And if you order a large enough volume, there actually are more profits to be made by doing 100% Made in Africa, because cost of living is lower, you have more workers at an affordable rate. Like if you factor in everything, and you get it to scale. It's also a great business model. So it's, it's like what you're saying, like you can do great business, and create an even better social impact when you set it up properly.
Paul Zelizer 34:19
Awesome. I couldn't agree more. So this is what cradle has, it's how he was born and where you are now. Like if you look ahead three to five years, where do you want cradle to be?
Valerie Bowden 34:32
My My goal has always been to to really help Americans, when you think about sourcing to want to choose African countries right now. You know, nobody thinks about getting the next developer from Ethiopia or you know, their next coffee from Uganda. And so, I love working on the stereotype part. So I hope in a few years, you know, sourcing from Africa doesn't seem so crazy or out there and And then becomes as normal as sourcing from somebody from Alibaba, like just, it's just like another, I hope cradle can become that kind of platform where we make it normalized to do good business in Africa. And I'd love to see. And there's so many talented youth in African countries that have great products or great tech skills. And I'd love just to keep matching people. And I guess, like, what we said earlier is to help solve more of these problems, and why trades not happening more. And I think transportation is a big one. I don't know what we can do about it. But I know it's always on my mind. And I'm always talking to people about what we can do to help help solve that issue.
Paul Zelizer 35:42
Well, you heard it first here cradle is going to be the new Alibaba and make me really, really, really happy. we've mostly been talking about physical products salary, like you said, 70%, you know, post pandemic, or, you know, while we're still in the midst of figuring out what his life with COVID look like, is now with the tech and marketing and BA support. Tell us a little bit about that part of cradle who tends to come to you looking for help? How do you know
Valerie Bowden 36:11
exciting, because if you look at it just in terms of impact, tech development, is one of the fastest ways you can create a lot of jobs. If you need a VA or developer, or customer support, cold callers, we match everything and we help set it up. And it's really cool to me when the talent is doing just as good in the African country as like the in house American team like that makes me so happy. I set up a team of cold callers out of Ethiopia. And they were always beating the US in house team members. And I find that exciting. People are always like, just wondering if the talent would be as good. And so what we've seen is that, when set up properly and on boarded and trained, you know, they're going to perform like any other remote team. And they're highly cost effective and dedicated, willing to work your timezone. So I think it's one of the best strategies US companies and companies around the world can do is to build a remote team in an African country and scale up faster.
Paul Zelizer 37:24
If somebody was like thinking about like, well, that sounds kind of interesting. But I've never really done a remote team, especially somebody on a different continent, and or I don't know how to go about finding talent, what would you say to somebody who's like you sparked their interest, but they don't really know what that looks like.
Valerie Bowden 37:42
I would say that's how everybody feels in the beginning. So that's super normal. What we do is we basically listen to what your needs are, and then we match you with, like the right talent for you. So for example, if you wanted to open a cold calling team, I would place you want the team in Ethiopia, because Ethiopians have super American leaning sounding accents. If you wanted a VA that had experience and was super affordable, I would pair you up with someone we work with in Uganda. So kind of like that, we basically just structure it around your needs. And we always work on like a one month pilot, so you can cancel anytime. And after that like a month by month contract. So there's no, there's nothing long, you can just say like, let me try this out for three months and see if it works. It's not a huge investment. And we always say we go month by month, because nobody really cancels, like, once you get used to it, it's really awesome to have extra support in your business. So yeah, I would say just start slowly take that first step, and you can move and build on as you go.
Paul Zelizer 38:47
Better. One of our main buckets, we have sort of two main buckets of listeners, the folks who've been around for a while and are really having impact have a viable business product market fit and are, you know, listening to think about scaling and thinking about impacting more people, you know, growing their team, so more people can do work that's meaningful and changing the world. And then the other bucket about 5050 is newer social entrepreneurs really dedicated feel like almost like they can't work at something that's not meaningful. Like, like, literally, I just can't do it. I can't go to work and just get a paycheck given that the world is burning, right. And so those second group of folks who are early around and they're trying they know some of the areas they're passionate about, but they're not fully up and running as a social they're building it or iterating and doing market research and listening to podcasts like this, to figure out how to reconcile or how to synthesize their desire to make the world a better place and to earn a livelihood, that quality of life. What would you say to somebody who's like Valerie five or 10 years ago What kind of suggestions? What kind of things have you learned that you might want to pass on to the next generation of social entrepreneur leaders?
Valerie Bowden 40:08
That's a great question. And I love people like that. I always say just take, just take like one tiny step in the direction of your curiosity. So for example, like, when I did my backpacking trip, I wasn't setting off to do the Cape to Cairo trip in seven months by myself, I took a one way ticket, because I was so afraid. And I wanted to be able to take a ticket as soon as I could back, you know, because I wasn't sure. And, you know, I was, I was gonna travel for six weeks instead. So I think it's just about exploring, taking tiny steps. If you if you see a store that needs some cool products, like why not try and match them, like, work with us on that, like, you don't have to build your own business, you don't have to register an LLC tomorrow. Yeah, I would say always taking tiny steps, and then learning from it. And then you'll be amazed when you look back how far your journey took you.
Paul Zelizer 41:03
But don't necessarily do the eight year version of it, sign up for the six week version of it and let it go from there. Is that what you're saying?
Valerie Bowden 41:11
Exactly. Even moved to Ethiopia, I thought I would be there for six months, like I came on a six month visa, I didn't say bye to anybody, I thought I'd be back home, like, you know, later on that year. And it just one thing led to the other. And I think sometimes we especially I'll get so paralyzed if I think so much in the future. And so I just want to show up and make the present as good as it can. And when you show up powerfully and enjoy the journey, then step by step you you make progress along the way.
Paul Zelizer 41:42
That's a great suggestion. Valerie, I could hang out with you all day, you're doing such good work, and you're busy or listeners are busy. So I wouldn't do that to you. If there was something you were hoping we were gonna get to today, in our interview, and we haven't touched on it, or there's something you want to like emphasize as we start to say goodbye. What would that be?
Valerie Bowden 42:04
I think, I guess two things. One, I really believe that if Africa isn't on your radar, you're missing out as a business, just simply for the fact there's a billion people, they're quickly becoming some of the fastest growing economies. And so it's really smart, I think business decision to to start thinking about Africa, and how you can incorporate it into your value chain or your team members. And be open to realizing that Africa and African countries are nothing like what you see on TV. And so the stereotypes about the continent are so vastly different than what the countries are like on the ground, and just not letting that stop you or scare you from getting started.
Paul Zelizer 42:49
To your first point, I saw you posting recently on LinkedIn about how sourcing from Africa can be really smart recession proof strategy for a strategy to recession proof your business as well as an incredible opportunity for the outsized impact that we've been talking about in today's interview. So yeah, just wanted to highlight that, and that that was a really wise observation that you had. So thanks for sharing that. Value. It's been fabulous. having you on the show today. Thank you so much for the work you're doing and sharing your wisdom with us.
Valerie Bowden 43:24
Thank you so much for having me, I'm so excited that you have an audience that is excited about the same things I'm excited about there.
Paul Zelizer 43:31
So we will put the link to cradle and to era 92 and two gorilla coffee. And here's some of the other awesome folks doing great work in the shownotes. As always take a look there. Before we go, I just want to say we love listener suggested topics and guests. So if you have an idea of business that's really making a unique kind of impact and an impact area, you're like, wow, they're really doing some things well there and I think this community could learn from them. Please go to the AWARE printers website. And on our contact page, we have three simple guidelines, we try to be incredibly transparent, we get more requests to be on the show. I have to say no more often than I wish but I tried to be transparent. Here's the guidelines. Here's the criteria we're using try to be super transparent if you take a look at those. And so yeah, I think if it's please send your ideas and we love when our listeners say here's who we want to hear from here's who we want to learn from. So before we go, I just want to say thank you so much for listening. Please take really good care in these intense times. And thank you for all the positive impact that you're working for in our world.