254 | Leveraging Design with Government to Have Impact at Scale with Eduardo Ortiz
Our guest this week on the pod is Eduardo Ortiz. Eduardo is the CEO of Coforma, a company that works with the government and private sector to craft creative digital solutions and build technology products that improve people's lives. Coforma's co-founders were recently jointly selected as DC's Small Business Persons of the Year by the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA).
Resources mentioned in this episode include:
Design for Government & Positive Impact: Interview with Eduardo Ortiz, CEO of Coforma
NOTE: While it’s not perfect, we offer this transcription by Otter.ai for those who are hearing impaired or who don’t find listening to a podcast enjoyable or possible.
SPEAKERS
Paul Zelizer, Eduardo Ortiz
Paul Zelizer 00:02
Hi, this is Paul Zelizer, and welcome to another episode of the Awarepreneurs podcast. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things, conscious business, social impact, and awareness practices. Each episode I do a deep dive interview with a thought leader in this intersection is somebody who having impact at a large degree of scale, and is impacting many lives. Before I introduce you to our guests, and our topic today, I have one request, if you could go over to Apple podcasts or whatever app you're listening to the show on, hit the subscribe button, do a rating and review. It helps tremendously. Today, I am thrilled to introduce you to Eduardo Ortiz, and our topic is Leveraging Design with Government to Have Impact at Scale. Eduardo Ortiz is the CEO of Coformac a company that works with the government and private sector to craft creative digital solutions and build technology products that improve people's lives. And Coforma just won an exciting award, the Small Business Administration's Person of the Year Award for the DC area. So congratulations to Eduardo, and welcome to the show.
Eduardo Ortiz 00:58
Thank you, Paul. I really appreciate it. And I appreciate the kind words.
Paul Zelizer 01:07
So Eduardo, we’re called Awarepreneurs. And one of the ways we like to get to know somebody is to ask you about a resiliency practice or wellness practice that you use to resource yourself for this really important work?
Eduardo Ortiz 01:29
That is a fantastic question. I think that there are probably two things that I do. One is to center myself by reading, it helps me to learn from others. And what they have achieved, what they suggest. In the second one is to just allow tension to leave my body by working out. It just helps me sometimes renew the energy that I have coursing through me.
Paul Zelizer 02:04
So this whole intersection of design and impact and working with governmental entities, like if somebody didn't know you, and was trying to get a sense of who you are, like, what can you tell the short version of your backstory? How did you get interested in this work and those intersections?
Eduardo Ortiz 02:31
Yeah, I think that the probably the short version of it is that I was someone that used to hit my head against the wall, to see who would outlast whom. And over time, I learned that developing an understanding for why the wall was in the way was a better and less traumatic approach than just bashing my head against it. I've spent time in the commercial sector, spend time in the military, spend time in government, and in nonprofit space. And I
Eduardo Ortiz 03:08
take in all of those lessons to drive what I do, which is attempt to help people through the skills that I have, and that my colleagues bring everyday took a form.
Paul Zelizer 03:23
So one of the things he said that I thought was just so true, and really direct, he said, Look, we can train people, both as a company and also as a society, we can train people in certain technical skills, but we can't train someone to give a shit. I started laughing. That's true, right? So there's a way in which you're approaching large organizations, including, like you told me before we hit record that 60% of your clients or governmental organizations of one stripe or another. And those organizations don't always have a reputation for caring and impact. And yet, that's who your clients are. And I think, listeners by the time this episode is over, you'll see that Eduardo and your team at conforma are deeply committed to impact. They talked to us a little bit about government and impact. Some people don't always push them in the same sense, right? Yeah,
Eduardo Ortiz 04:21
I think that anyone that believes that people in government don't care probably have a misguided understanding of the work that they do. First and foremost, they are people just like us. They have amazing days. They have better days, and they also have really, really shitty days. Just like us but these are people that often have sacrifice, making large amounts of monies to work in an environment where consistently, they get seen and tagged as the scour. That leads to everything that is wrong in the world. And what we have come to the understanding. And where we start is that a lot of these people that we get to work with, they've been trying similar things than what we are suggesting time and time again. And they keep getting beat down, they keep getting stomped on. And it takes an outsider to come in, and to recognize that there's a lot of value in what they have been tried to make happen, and to amplify them, and to give them that soapbox, if you will, to actually execute on ideas. And Paul, without missing a beat, every single time that we have identified the champions, those people that actually care beyond what anyone may want to believe. And we've listened to them, we've ended up with better results, better outcomes, and a deeper impact than if we had attempted to do things on our own. Because a lot of these folks have been there for a long time. And they have been the ones that have acted as shepherds and as emissaries for us to be able to leverage our skills, and their deep understanding in order to provide solutions that actually help people.
Paul Zelizer 07:01
So to help our audience kind of wrap their brain around, like when you talk about solutions that actually help people or audiences. Yeah, we want that, but but the way you're doing it might not be as familiar with some of our listeners. So I was reading your blog before just getting ready for this interview. And I was looking at two projects. So one of them, actually, I've done several projects in the realm of health equity. So to help our listeners get a sense of like, what is conforma actually do? Tell us about one of the health equity projects you've worked on?
Eduardo Ortiz 07:33
Yeah, absolutely. I think that. The first question is, it's probably easier to answer which is, what we do is that we leverage our skills in order to solve problems. Our skill set, transcends research, design, and engineering and product know how, and we bring that to any issue that is brought to us and we figure out how to collaborate with whomever is bringing us this issue to solve it. We are technology agnostic, we are process agnostic. What we are not agnostic is on solving the problem. That is one thing that we go in fully aware that that must happen. However it must happen. In the health equity space, I think that one of my one of the ones that I enjoy the most is the Health Plus Program, which is a program that we created to basically commoditize and to package all of our skills into one offering. And the first time that we did this, it was focused on Lyme disease. And actually, the first time that we did this, it was focused on sickle cell disease. Sickle cell disease is a disease that affects primarily African Americans. The numbers of patients affected are not that large. But the lack of treatment and the lack of care that exists is staggering. And often, they are people that suffer from sickle cell are misunderstood, because the science is not as advanced as it should be. Neither is the health care space. And in partnership with the Department of Health and Human Services, we launch our Health Plus sickle cell disease cycle and brought in to the same spaces. patients suffering from sickle cell disease, policymakers, clinicians and medical providers, and experts in the field of humans. center design research in participatory design to help first, develop a common understanding of how people that are affected by sickle cell disease saw themselves how they were treated in how they wish that they were treated, and to provide direct access and input to and from medical providers and policymakers with the goal of helping to address some of the concerns that this community that these people are facing, faster than the traditional five to 10 year cycle, that usually we see with new medical practices being put into place. And specifically out of this cycle, we saw little booklets being created so that medical professionals actually understood what a sickle cell disease because often people that are affected by sickle cell disease when they are experiencing some of the some of the trauma associated with this disease, need narcotics they need painful they need, they need pain management, and are often seen as if they are just trying to find drugs. You can imagine how frustrating that is to go to the ER and to not be treated because you maybe are dressed the same as others there. Maybe because the color your skin is said what they expect. And because on TV, people that look like you usually just want to use drugs. That is frustrating beyond believe. And this psycho for Health Plus helped us bring and bubble up a lot of DOS conversations up in order to attend to bring a solution to the space.
Paul Zelizer 12:15
Such a great example. And I think one of the things that I was learning as I was doing my research was when you talk about design, we talk about leveraging design in our topic, you're talking about design thinking like a holistic approach to bring more inclusive and more connected solutions to complex problems. Is that fair to say?
Eduardo Ortiz 12:43
Yes, but it's but it's beyond that. When when we use design, we're often talking about making decisions and working to have a clear understanding of the problem space, as you're moving through. I do my best to try to stay away from from buzzwords such as design thinking or human centered design or user research, even though sometimes it's impossible to stay away from them, because they tend to create barriers in how we understand and how we address things.
Paul Zelizer 13:26
Thanks for clarifying Eduardo horse. So another example. And again, my intent here lists are just to kind of give you a sense of like, what is the work so we can then unpack and get into what we're known for, you know, how to clients find them? What are the revenue streams, but this is a very unique model that you're using Eduardo. So another example that I thought might help our listeners get a more tangible sense of a project you work on, is in the area of immigration, you did a project around helping families who were separated at the US Mexico border, reconnect with each other. Tell us a little bit about that project. And what was some of the things you were working on in that project?
Eduardo Ortiz 14:10
Yeah, so funnily enough, Paul, and I'm not sure that I shared this with you. But that project for me specifically, it started in 2018, when the Trump administration's actually started separating children from their families. At that point, co former was, was called and partners. And it was really a joke. Because we started the name had an ampersand in it, which made it impossible to actually spell out impossible to write in any kind of like digital form, because immediately they would strip the ampersand from it. So it was just a big joke of something that we would do if we needed to. And when the when the Trump administration implemented the separation policy, we knew that there was something that we needed to do about it. And at the time, in 2018, we created a tool to help a it was a CRM in order to help those that were working in the frontlines, social workers, lawyers, and other volunteers working at the Southwest border, to identify the families that were being stopped by our immigration services, and document as much as possible. So that children that were being removed from parents could in a future be reunited. The vision was that that future would be today. For reasons beyond our control, the tool wasn't as successful as we wish that it had. And last year, we were given the opportunity to ameliorate that situation, given a number of legal legal agreements that the administration now the right administration had, had entered with, with with law firms. And we were asked to help to create a tool that allowed those that have been harmed, whether they were separated and still separated or separated and deported or separated in whether they were based in the United States or not, basically anything, anyone that was harmed to file with the United States government, in order to either be reunited or to get access to, to mental health care. In our initial reaction, because it was the government that the government was, was the one behind the initial harm was to say no. And after learning about the task force that was established, the family reunification Task Force and the work that they had been doing, and the people driving it, we were blown away, and we said we have to engage in when we engage it was an experience like no other, we were treated as partners from the get go. And they were looking at us to actually bring them into the liver, on what we believed was the right thing based on the information that we had been gathering based on our research. So we started everything from ensuring that our content was respectful, friendly, available and accessible, to creating a visual interface that ensure to communicate that feeling of togetherness to those families or to anyone that may be using it. But most importantly, we worked with, with those that brought us brought us on to ensure that their website was accessible in a multitude of languages. It was in written language in Spanish English, and a Portuguese which we did the translations for, but it was also available in several Native or, or local languages to to Central and South America like Mauna Kea, che, and catchy and Kung Jobar, which is not common. And for us, we thought that a word that it was something just an amazing opportunity to to engage with. And this tool exists today it is being used by the UNHCR and the Department of Homeland Security in order to help reunite these families over the I believe that the last number is something over 4500 that are still in some way, shape or form affected by this nefarious policy put in place by the Trump administration. And to have even one little hand at helping to write such a wrong in the moral fabric of our country of the many wrongs in the moral fabric of our country was an opportunity that we could not pass up.
Paul Zelizer 19:31
I can only imagine how good that felt and thank you for doing that really sacred work. You really into Eduardo, you're leading to like even when you first heard about this project of you know helping families reconnect that have been separated years at first, we were gonna say no, you're a very values driven company. And it's not like every government project or every project in spaces. You're quite familiar with working let's say in the health pace, you, you're really clear that values is a measuring stick for what you say yes to and what you say no to. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Eduardo Ortiz 20:12
Yeah, so I was a little bit made up. But like, one of our values is that there's that we are values driven. Everything that we do and how we do, it starts with an intake framework that we created in 2018, after we went live with this work that we did, to try to help reunify families or to document the families that were being separated, and people started asking to work with us, because we wanted to not have to say no, less than we wanted to say, yes. And the way to do that was by being very clear as to how and who we would work with and why. And the fact that, you know, we stand behind what we believe in. And so we made our intake framework public, and we've had organizations that have told us, we were going to go with someone else, but because of your intake framework, we know where you guys stand. So we want to work with you. And we've had organizations that have told us that we are going to fail. And I very much look forward to every single day where they come to our website tried to see if we failed, and they have to live yet another day with knowing that doing the right thing is much more important than not
Paul Zelizer 21:41
such an important lesson there are no and I wonder if you could say I mean, I still make most of my money doing, you know, consulting for social entrepreneur, business, model, marketing, strategy, pricing, all that stuff, right. That's, that's how I make most of my money. And recently, somebody saw a client that I had worked with in situ, some change and went to my website. And he's like, I can tell just by going to your website, that your values and my values are very closely aligned, and I need to talk to you because I think we might want to do some work together. And we are now working together, right? So I just tell that story to say, I hear you loud and clear. And I made a similar choice. Like, I don't want people being surprised, I have some very strong values. And in this time, there are entrepreneurs that are doing work I'm very aligned with and that's how I want to help. And then there's entrepreneurs and business owners that are doing work that are less aligned for me, and I want them, I want people to be able to sort that all out pretty quickly. And I'm pretty public, both on my website and social, right. But I know that this is a place that a lot of impact entrepreneurs feel like they're nervous, like, I know what my values are. But I'm a little nervous, if I you know, really plant my flag here that somebody might not hire me, I might lose a lot of money, I might not be able to stay in business, what would you say, to founder that's in that space.
Eduardo Ortiz 23:05
I mean, those are all real fears. And those are very, very valuable. If you're unable to eat, if you're unable to feed your family, clothe your family, if you're unable to be safe, because you're about values. Because people are not coming to you and working with you. Because of your values, and you have the opportunity of doing something that is a little bit outside of the lines, then do it and figure out how to make up for it. I mean, a lot of what we do in how we drive impact is by ensuring that for every single engagement that we work with, with the federal government, who oftentimes it's behind a lot of the harm that happens to people, that we work with other organizations that don't have the same resources, but that are trying to provide care to people in ways that are not possible. By deeply discounting our work. It definitely doesn't make up for the fact that we are getting paid by the federal government or that we are getting paid by organizations and maybe in some way, shape or form or not ideal to us. But that's all part of one's decision, making framework. And doing work that in one way, shape or form. You are okay with and being able to eat. Being able to live is much more important than being able to say I did not do this work. I stuck to my values and not having any impact at all.
Paul Zelizer 24:54
Thanks so much for sharing that Eduardo. So let's see this when we come back on Want to hear a little bit more specifically what co forma looks like now some of the projects, you're working on your team, you built a fabulous team and where you're going, before we do that, just want to take a quick break and hear a word from our sponsor. You have a business, that's about making the world a better place, and you want to grow both in terms of your impact, so you can help more people and your income so you can live a good quality of life. If so, I'd like to talk to you about some research for a second. When scientists look at what actually helps us achieve our goals. The single biggest predictor, whether it's a wellness goal, or an impact business goal is what they call social support. In other words, do we have a network, an ecosystem, a community of people who understand the journey we're on and can say, hey, given where you are in the journey, here's some strategies that really worked for me. And it worked for other people that I know and similar point in development, as well as the emotional support of just the ups and downs starting an impact business, you know, a lot of ups and downs, it can be an emotional roller coaster. Where printers has a community like that. It's called the aware of foreigners community, we have several 100 Really kind, really compassionate and really skillful social entrepreneurs, where we share exactly those two things, number one, strategies, resources, tactics that work in our space. And number two, we emotionally support each other on the ups and downs of the journey of being a social entrepreneur. It's called the AWARE printers community, it's affordable. And you can find out more at aware printers.com forward slash community. Thank you to everybody in the AWARE printers community who helped sponsor this podcast. So Eduardo, in the second part of the show, we'd like to joke about putting on our social entrepreneur glasses. So if you put on your social entrepreneur classes, and just kind of look at take a snapshot of what conforma looks like, right here, right now in terms of revenue streams, the number of people who work for the company, etc. What do you see?
Eduardo Ortiz 27:13
Oh, I see a lot happening. And it is absolutely amazing. We are now 75 people. I think that we have probably about 10 more people that we are seeking to hire in the next in the next few months. We're continuing to have incredible impact, given those that we that we still that in some way, shape or form that we have engaged with. And that's been absolutely amazing.
Paul Zelizer 27:58
What kind of skill sets would you say like, although 75, soon to be 85? Congratulations, that's awesome. Like what kind of skill sets are represented in the company?
Eduardo Ortiz 28:10
We have researchers, we have designers, we have writers, we have engineers. We have product people. We have lawyers, we have contract specialists. We have proposal specialists. We have technical writers that are different than then then content designers. Yeah, we have a lot of amazing human beings that are part of our ecosystem.
Paul Zelizer 28:44
Congratulations. And when you look at the projects you're working with now, or some of the proposals that are coming in now, like what what are some of the things you're working on? Now? What are some of the skill sets that people are coming to you? You know, you've been more public? You just won this award? Right? Again, congratulations, you've been in the media more. My sense is people are getting your like four and a half, five years into the company journey. Is that about right?
Eduardo Ortiz 29:10
It's about three and a half years. Journey. Yes. But yes.
Paul Zelizer 29:15
People give you a little more like what are the kinds of projects people are approaching you with now?
Eduardo Ortiz 29:20
Yeah, you know, it's interesting that when people started approaching us, the project looked a lot more like the things that we were talking about. So we would talk about design and prototyping and facilitation and people would come to us to help them solve those problems. And as we've grown, and as we've learned, and as we have brought in new capabilities to the organization, people and as we've started speaking about the work that we do in showing the way the work that we do in different ways People have started to notice and started to change their asks. So what, before, literally a year ago, what someone would, would tell us, hey, we would like for you to put a team of design researchers together, and to truly develop a solid understanding of what the problem in this space is, and how we could address it. Then tell us that and we will find an engineering team or a product team, and we will have them build out a solution if your guidance if your outcomes are that you we should build that thing. And today, people come to us and they're like, Hey, we have a problem. We believe that your company has the skills to help us understand why this problem is a problem, who it is affecting, and how we could solve it in if so if there is a technology solution to it, to actually implement it. And that's where we are take where the assets have changed as the company has changed. And as we have grown and developed new capabilities and abilities. So have the asks,
Paul Zelizer 31:17
What would you say our listeners are either fairly established, awesome impact founders who are in that phase of like a more, I've heard it called going from startup to scale up, right? The second part of our episode is the title is to have impact at scale. Right? So what have you learned Eduardo, and you and your co founder about being a founder who's who's being invited into conversations that have more scale that are more complex that aren't only, although certainly that's important, like help us get a sense of the lay of the land? And what are some of the problems and we'll go take our dollars and our attention elsewhere and build it and now they're saying, will you build the thing, not not help us understand the terrain of what the problem is? And then we'll go build it somewhere else? What have you needed to do as a leadership team to sort of be ready and and be the kind of thought leaders where people feel comfortable with those bigger asks?
Eduardo Ortiz 32:22
I? That is such a great question. And I'm going to answer it in, I think, in a different way than just answering it directly. I think that what we have found is that we have almost like found ourselves. We have found that we have skills and know how, and the passion to solve problems that are really challenging. And we continue to find people who have skills, passion, and drive, to join us to help solve those problems. In having that understanding, has enabled us to go into spaces where we either were being seen as not having the skills, or the capability or the understanding in allowing the passion to open the doors for us in showing that we were more than capable in bringing ideas to the table until we were invited to the table itself. And that's been a lesson for us in the federal government space. A lot of the work that happens is bought by the federal government by soliciting it through a number of tools. There's Sam that go in other like a contract vehicle specific outlets, where they publish the things that they are trying to buy. Over the years, we've understood that when we see something at that point, there's a chance that someone has been having conversations, and that they have a deeper understanding of what the problem is. And so when they put a proposal together, they come from a place of deep understanding. And once we understood that, that we actually needed to be further upstream and to have conversations with people to truly understand the process that people were facing, that enabled us to respond to these RFQs request for for for quotations or a request for proposals from a position of deep understanding to actually bring to bear our skills And to how we would be able to solve those problems. And the more that we show to people that we are capable, the more that we are invited, the more that people talk to one another. And they say, Well, you should talk to this organization. Because again, these are just people. So just like, we would vouch for one another and be like, oh, this person is absolutely amazing at doing X, Y, or Zed. That's the same way that people in the government work. When you work for someone and you show up and you do good work, do you advise them in a way that in a way that is true and ethical and drives through results? They'll talk to others. And they will say, You know what, that company, I really liked them. But on the other hand, when you don't, they will also talk to one another, just like everyone else, that's
Paul Zelizer 35:53
really helpful. Thank you so much, Eduardo. And I'm thinking it should be live by the time we publish this episode, an episode with the co founder of Impossible Foods brand that Oh, wow, bringing really quality food in mostly through school systems, which are very complicated and have a lot of both federal and state regulation are using federal monies, in many cases to bring food to kids, right? School Lunch Program and other funds right then and now 1000 employees, they're in most six different centers and multiple states, and really having impact at scale in a way that's just very inspiring. And, and I think about how they have, and they and you have done some similar things by not shying away from government and saying, Hey, these policies, whether it's school lunch, or what we're doing in a health equity type program, or what's happening in terms of separation at the border, and then helping families reconnect, these are impacting hundreds of 1000s of people. And when we shy away as impact oriented people, we're missing an opportunity to be helpful at a mind boggling scale. Is that fair to say?
Eduardo Ortiz 37:17
I think so. I I personally don't know. Any other way that I would say it.
Paul Zelizer 37:27
So if we have a founder that's like, Hmm, this is opening up my mind. Or maybe I already had this on my radar of like, okay, how would I connect with federal, state, local municipality, tribal government funds like that all is a really new world. To me, I have my area of impact. And I know a lot about that. But I know very little about these fundings or like, how would somebody who's like, Hmm, this sounds interesting, I want to see if my impact organization could potentially benefit and have impact using some of these funds, how would somebody start to wrap their brain about what's possible there?
Eduardo Ortiz 38:08
Yeah, I think that the the first thing is, reading and getting up to speed to understand the nuances of doing work with governments. In this case, I've agreed to stick to the federal government because it's the one that I know the most, at the state level, or tribal and local level, things change a ton. by the federal government, there's only one at least in the United States. There's this book called The Small Business guide to government contracts. The book is a fantastic resource in helping to lay out what one needs to do in order to work up to work or for the for the federal government, from the types of potential contracts to the types of relationships that are possible to the requirements that are that are necessary for someone attempting to do work with the federal government. And it is probably one of my go to books. When dealing with the with the federal government. There are a lot of online resources, a lot of them that are helpful in understanding how to work with the federal government. I don't think that there's anything wrong with doing a simple online search for how to do business with the government. In order to, to set out on on that on that path, whether it is on a contract basis or or grants bases. I think that that is probably one of the easiest way, because there's a lot of content out there.
Paul Zelizer 40:07
Awesome. So put a link in the show notes to both that book, as well as the Impossible Foods episode. And obviously the CO former Web. Thank you. So when you look ahead, it's been an exciting three and a half, four years for you all, you're at 75 employees, things are really rocking and rolling, but you're bringing on more people like things are, you're not done yet. You're not the kind of guy who like puts your feet up on the coffee table and says, I'm done. Now I don't get that sense of value. Like, when you look ahead three years or five years out, where do you want performance to be?
Eduardo Ortiz 40:46
I want it to be that people keep saying they're doing good work. That's really all that I care. There's nothing more important than our organization continuing to do the work. Whether it is in three years, five years, or 20 years from now, if we are not doing good work, if we are not having that impact that we see is our driver, then it's time to close up shop and let the next generation take over.
Paul Zelizer 41:27
Great insight there and Marta was so how is your job changed? Like I would imagine, go back three and a half years or four years as you're like, dreaming this up and getting your first contracts and figuring out like how to even apply for things right? And to now have like team is 75 bringing on more people working in more complex actually building the solutions more often. I imagine your job has changed. Like what when you go to work now How's it different than when you went to work three or four years ago,
Eduardo Ortiz 42:02
three or four years ago, I knew what I was doing. Today, I don't I think that that is probably the easiest way to, to put it the problems that I am solving the issues that I am dealing with. They're completely foreign to. I went from making decisions as to how we should be placing a button on a screen in order to help people improve their ability to interact with something to creating a calculator in order to understand how compliant we are with a specific contract. Things that I've never in my life expected to be doing.
Paul Zelizer 42:54
I imagine it both if you're like me, I didn't expect to be doing a podcast like like it's exciting to learn new things. And it's also scary, like, whoa, I'm like, how did it iterate that I didn't necessarily train for? And like it's a yes, but it's not I don't know. They're scary moments and growing into new places, at least for me.
Eduardo Ortiz 43:16
Oh, it is very scary for me as well. But you know, there's something so comforting. In when I was the only employee I was like, I'm the smartest employee in this company. And that was true. And as I started hiring, I was like, I'm one of the smartest. And now I've changed my thinking to say, wow, look at all these smart people that I get to call coworkers. And the truth is that even though it is scary, I look around and by Iran. I mean, I scroll through slack because that's we are a digital organization that fully distributed. And I see so many bright people having deeply meaningful and rich conversations about the work that they are doing or the things that are happening in balancing all of that and it is inspiring, and it is energizing. In that drives me to do what I do on a daily basis. Yeah.
Paul Zelizer 44:32
Glad you do what you do, Eduardo. So I can I can hang out with you all day and you're a busy guy and our listeners are busy too. So there was something as we start to wind down if there was something you were hoping we were gonna get to and we haven't had time to touch on it yet. Or there's a suggestion or a piece of advice you want to leave our impact founders with as we start to wind down what would that be at one
Eduardo Ortiz 45:01
Yeah, I think that going back to the point of people not believing that that government is whether federal, state, local, tribal, whether that it is not the space in which to create change, I would encourage you to rethink that stance. I think that when you're trying to solve problems, and you want to solve them at scale, going to any government and working with them, in order to help to solve those problems, is going to have deeper and more impactful results, then, taking a different approach. There's so much work that is being done at the federal, state, local and tribal level that requires people that think differently, that bring a level of passion, because they have not been in the same space for 1015 20 years, bringing the same idea to bring change about and being told no people that maybe are not as jaded they would be able to have a true impact on how others are able to live. And yeah, it's, I would just encourage people to truly think about it. If what you're seeking is scale, if what you're seeking is impact, look to the government's and throw your hat into the ring and do the work.
Paul Zelizer 47:05
I was thinking about it getting ready for this interview, Eduardo was thinking about how oftentimes, partially because of this place, that we live in a lot of our listeners that I live in anyway, in in the United States, we're very individual focused society. And it's so many of the impact areas that our founders want to touch on, from climate solutions to what's going on in terms of how people have been marginalized into certain living situations, those solutions have to include government, like, like, as an individual, I can walk, I can try to turn down my heat, I can make certain changes in how much I'm driving or, you know, I mostly try to eat flexitarian. So that has certain positive impact in terms of climate but, but so much of the research is telling us that we have to make some changes collectively, or it's not going to lead us to the place we want to go. Right. And I was thinking about that, as I was getting ready for this episode, how much you all are willing to go with government into those areas that are really sticky and complex, and there's been harm and it's been, you know, messy, and you all are willing to go there. And I never quite thought about it that way before in the what it means when somebody like yourself, and your team says yes to helping government be more skilled. And the impact that's possible there, when so much of what we hear is drive a little less or change your diet. Again, I'm not against those, but they're not going to move the needle to the extent we need to move the needle. So I honor thank you all
Eduardo Ortiz 48:56
there. They're not but you know, we are lucky to be amongst a large and growing group of organizations that are trying to help people by working directly with government by bringing the resources and the capabilities to government because at the end of the day, government is us. You know, and we're part of this organization called the Digital Services coalition. I think we have something like 33 member firms that all work in one way, shape or form with different government agencies, the federal, state, local and tribal level, to help bring about change to help governments actually achieve their mission of caring for their constituents. And there's nothing to me, much more satisfying than knowing that the work that I did is helping people
Paul Zelizer 49:58
and listeners, just Does this sound like a little thought experiment? Like is this for real like goo? Okay, this sounds kind of interesting. Here's a little thought experiment, I encourage you, if there's any kind of like, Ooh, this is interesting. Go to the copama website, the link is in the shownotes. And just notice that one of the things I was noticing just how clear and how we think a government and everything has to be bureaucratic, and the words is sounds like a bunch of gibberish, that doesn't really mean anything, right? And your website is so crisp, so clean, so just direct that I was like, Wow, all right. This is really interesting. You are an organization that's making a large portion of your money from government contracts and clients and your ability to articulate take a stand, say there are certain projects that were a clear no to and others that were a hell yes to and how you communicate that is, again, listeners, I encourage you to go notice something you might notice there's not a lot of bureaucracy. So good work, Eduardo. I was really impressed. Thank
Eduardo Ortiz 51:11
you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Paul Zelizer 51:14
Eduardo, thank you so much for being on the show today. It's it's been fabulous having you here.
Eduardo Ortiz 51:19
Thank you so much for having me, Paul, really appreciate it. And to your listeners. Feel free to reach out. I'm available on Twitter, or LinkedIn, and happy to chat whenever
Paul Zelizer 51:35
I'll put a link to those as well. So that's all the time we have. For today's episode, listeners. I'll put a link to Eduardo on Twitter to Eduardo on LinkedIn to the CO formas. Say to the book, into the Impossible Foods episodes, just to give you some ideas and some resources and agree, thought leader in this space. Before we go, I just want to say we love listener suggested topics and guests. So if you have an idea for an episode, please go to the AWARE partners website. Go to our contact page, you'll see three simple guidelines, we try to be really clear the kinds of stories that we're looking for. And if something feels like it's aligned, send it on and we'd love to hear from you. For now, I just want to say thank you so much for listening. Please take really good care in these intense times. And thank you for all the positive impact that you're working for in our work.