203 | The Business of Fatherhood with Ben Killoy
Our guest on the pod this week is Ben Killoy. Ben is a coach who helps high-performing men with thriving businesses and out of balance family lives get excited about pulling into their driveways again. He's also the host of the Military Veteran Dad podcast and has recently launched The Business of Fatherhood podcast.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
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The Business of Fatherhood - Interview with Ben Killoy
SPEAKERS
Ben Killoy, Paul Zelizer
Paul Zelizer 00:01
Hi, this is Paul Zelizer, and welcome to another episode of The Awarepreneurs podcast. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things, conscious business, social impact, and awareness practices. Each episode, I do a deep dive interview with a thought leader in this intersection. Someone who has market tested experience, and is already transforming many lives. Before I introduce today's guests and her topic, and this one well, Boy, am I excited about this one. I always say that, but it's so true. This one I really really am excited about. Before I introduce them, if you could go over to Apple podcasts or whatever app you're listening to the show on and do a rating and review it helps tremendously. Thanks for considering. today. I'm really excited to introduce you to Ben kaloi, and our topic is the business of fatherhood. Ben is a coach who helps high performing men with thriving businesses and out of balance family lives get excited about pulling into their driveway again, he's also the host of the military veteran dad podcast and is just about to be launched at the time of this recording the business of fatherhood. Welcome to the show, Ben, thank you for having me, Paul. I cannot tell you how ecstatic I am to be here in your presence and just continue to grow our friendship that started seven months ago because I said yes to recording podcast episodes and listening to your episode as I edit it, I couldn't help but feel connected to what you do. And I'm really excited about what we can create here today with this interview. I am so excited. And listeners, I don't always talk about it that much. But part of my history as some of you know, I did social work and community organizing 15 year career I like to joke I'm a social entrepreneur who previously was a social worker, a social worker who reinvented himself as a social entrepreneur. Seven and a half years of that 15 year career half of that time, I ran a men's center called the men's Resource Center as the executive director and help and co founder of a men's center called the men's Resource Center of northern New Mexico. We had a project around engaging young fathers, we did Domestic Violence Intervention and batterers intervention work we were working with helping men kind of work with some of the social inculturation we get. Anyway, I am been passionate about this topic for a really long time. And Ben is the right person for us to have this conversation with. So then, since you've listened to an episode or two, you know, I'm gonna ask you this question. What's a wellness or a resiliency practice that you personally use to help resource yourself for this really important, but not always very easy work.
Ben Killoy 02:45
I've had to learn this the hard way. And I think what I often get mixed up, and I often forget this advice. And I have to remind myself this advice. And I think entrepreneurs get sucked into this as well. There's so many cookie cutter pieces of advice out there, you try to plug in and it doesn't always feel right, and you feel kind of broken. Some of that can be related to the Miracle Morning. They're like, Oh, there's these great books and have these great morning routines. And this is how I'm going to crush the morning. And what I've had to learn, especially as I've rewired my life as a stay at home dad through 2020 that it's something a lot simpler. So for me in the last few months, what I've recommitted to is getting up at five going for a 45 minute workout at the gym. And when I come back from that there is something about that process that resets me that I just feel ready to conquer the day and when the day and be dad and do what needed to get done. And that little 45 minute workout, I can tell when 100% difference, if I don't get that workout in the whole morning just drags. And I'm just like dealing with entrepreneurial guilt almost because I'm like, I'm not as productive as I'm supposed to be because I'm still groggy. But if I get that 45 minute workout in, it's like the Red Sea part and I can do anything I want to achieve that day. But it really starts with trying to find what plugs in for you and what really gets your juices going. And for me, it's something as simple as a 45 minute workout, I love it. I'm just like not the same human when I'm not exercise versus when I am. I totally hear you. It's almost like you wake up and there's a pot of water on the stove and it just stagnant. And to me that workout is just turn the temperature up and getting all your molecules and everything moving around really fast. And it just washes away whatever groggy and tired feeling that I have. And plus it helps improve your health, you've helped improve your physique. And that in itself can also improve your self confidence as you go out in the world and have the courage to create something as a social entrepreneur that changes it. Nice. So just to give people a little bit of background, you just referenced it but give us a little more detail your stay at home dad like there's a there's a couple little ones running around your house. Tell us a little bit about like, what if somebody was to like drop into your house on a typical morning, whoa, who's there and what's happened in there. The last year I can't tell you how many times I've had to reinvent my life and it's started before Corona even came into our life. So January 26, of 2020, I wanted to work as a normal day. And by 9am, I found out my position at work was being eliminated after eight years with the company. And so February 14 was the last day in the office. And through some major conversations, I had to figure out what to do next. I had been had the podcast for almost a year now I've been trying to be an entrepreneur, I've been trying to break free and figure out what this whole thing look like. And I eventually had the courage I'm like, man, like, I'm gonna go all in and I'm gonna go towards professional speaking. And my kids are still in school, my daughter still in daycare. So I really haven't assumed in new roles in this point. But I'm like, this is where I'm going to go, then COVID hits blows up that entire dream. And throughout that whole process, the kids come home, my wife's a kindergarten teacher. So her world has been chaotic as well trying to support her and make sure she has what she needs. And it just felt better being a stay at home dad than worrying about all the other things and trying to figure out what life looked like. And so as I started to fall in love with being a stay at home, Dad through the last year, I had just rewired the summer, my routines, how to get work done, when to get work done. And it really started to change. My kids went back to school in September. So my older two are, they were at the time eight, and six. And they went back to school, and I was here with my youngest, who's four years old. And she's in preschool in the afternoons and I get mornings with her and I intentionally did on purpose that we did stuff in the morning, I would spend time with her. And then the afternoon when she's at preschool, that's kind of like my entrepreneur time. But I can still tell you, from the moment I went to the Marine Corps boot camp in 2003, right out of high school, for the January or February 14, Valentine's Day of last year, I had somewhere to be every morning. And what I didn't realize, and I didn't realize how independent I was when you have to get yourself out of bed. And you're the only one that suffers if you don't, that is an entirely new thought process and muscle mental exercise. Because for those years from 2003 to 2020, I was accountable to someone else, I needed to be out of bed because someone else was counting on me. And that was almost a year long process to almost grieve the old version, we rebuild the new version, figure out what it looked like figure out what confidence looked like cuz I've never been a stay at home dad. And to go even a little bit further back of where this idea even started. Because I never even saw myself as a stay at home dad is my wife went to China for 10 days in 2019. She was invited to go over there with the school district that she works on. I wanted to be the supportive husband. So I said, Yeah, sure. But then I was like, wait, that means test 10 days, that's just me. I've never had the kids more than a week or weekend even. And I was like, This is gonna be crazy. And then so I took off work. And so I was like that was my insurance policy that things were going to be okay that I could get through if I didn't have to focus on work. But those 10 days, I mean, I left, she left on a Friday. And probably like from Friday to Wednesday, we're just crazy. I was waking up. I had a hangover every morning and I wasn't even drinking. But by Wednesday, I found my routine. And by Friday, I was just fall in love with this new idea. And then I spent the next six months almost in misery because all I wanted back with those 10 days is dad. And I was like I don't want to be here at work. I just want to be dad. And so when I lost my job, it ended up being a gift because it gave me the freedom to dig into who I want it to be dig into where I want to go. And I'm on the other side almost a year and a half later. I'm still working I'm really feel like I've gotten lift under my wings now. But man, that is a journey that is definitely real. It has its pits, but it has its valleys and it has its rises through the challenges like a roller coaster. But I wouldn't trade it for the world. 2020 has been my dad's best best dad year, in all the times that I've been dad,
Paul Zelizer 08:44
and four, six and eight. But you know, being a parent, I like to say and it's a joke, but it's not a joke. It's true. That the two fiercest teacher, my life has been being a dad and I have won. She's now just about to turn next month she turns 21 and she's just like the biggest teacher in my life. And being an entrepreneur, and you got three kids and you started a startup at same time and two podcasts and I'm like, Wow, man, just deep out to you. And all the parents all the dads, especially in COVID just breaks my heart I can as somebody who really tried to show up and be present in my daughter's life and it's a nonprofit director and then a startup entrepreneur while I was being a dad my daughter was six and we got divorced and it was week on week off so like I wasn't just your average like not very present dad. I was like I caught my daughter. I cut the cord I like I got two weeks. I'm sorry two months of paternity leave because I was running a men's center when my daughter was born I stayed home with her so anyway, like this is not an uninformed, deep, deep bow to you and to all the dads who are trying to buck this cultural training we don't get and do get yeah
Ben Killoy 10:00
Thank you for your work in a deep bow, especially what's happening right now with COVID. And schools being closed and everything. Wow. The interesting component to add to that is last February, right before the world closed down, I went to dad 2.0, which is a dad influencer conferences with dad entrepreneurs. And there I met other stay at home dads, and I wasn't even a stay at home dad at this point. But I was like, you do what? And then there was like five of them around. And then this is the part that blew my mind. There's actually a convention, it's called stay at home dad con. Oh my gosh. And I went on a walk around DC with one of the dads that I had randomly met in the lobby, I went into this conference, not knowing anybody, and we went walked around with three dads around DC, great conversation. Fast forward a year that dad called me about three weeks ago, and told me that he was inviting me to be the opening keynote to stay at home dad con of this year in October. Like it like the full circle on this whole story is still almost surreal. Because it's I it's almost hard to believe that it's my story because I sometimes it can just feel so hard trying to be a dad and do what you need to do. And you don't feel like you're even make hitting the mark. But man, it's those little moments where you have to just reconfirm you are doing the right thing. Because in the long run, things do end up where they're supposed to.
Paul Zelizer 11:17
So that's a little window into your dad, we're all done. If there's other stories, as we go through this conversation, bring them in, give us a little bit. Like let's help people understand how you got to where you are as an entrepreneur and as a social entrepreneur. And when I look at it, Ben, it's hard to There's your experience in the military, which I want to hear about. And there's also this podcast called the military veteran dad podcast, you're 110 episodes in and you know, when I look at the people that we know, in common, when you came across my radar on LinkedIn, that podcast stands out, there's something happening with that podcast that helped you find your way into the social entrepreneur and find your footing as a social Is that fair to say? That is 100%. fair to say. And it mainly was beginning all the way back when I first trans out of transition out of the Marine Corps in 2007. So I got out with this simple idea, I almost had no idea any point of self growth, reading books, none of that was there. But this one thought was that I was meant for something bigger in the Marine Corps is gonna hold me back, I had zero idea what that was. I just knew in the way the Marine Corps measured me being effective, I was not meeting the bar. So I got out, they give you the code to get out, they tell you get a job, use your GI Bill, get a degree, start a family do all the things that the American Dream says and this should lead you to your finger line, everything will be perfect. Fast forward 10 years, it did not lead to that in 2014, I had to drop out of the College of Engineering because I failed two classes. And I was like, I need to take a pause. My daughter was two years old at the time. And I remember looking her eyes and be like, how can I lead you and your life if I can't lead myself through mine. I was in a 30 year midlife crisis as well, where I was just like, I think I'm gonna reach the end of my life. And no one's gonna care that I was here. Like, I was just in a big dark spot of I don't think what I'm doing is mattering. It matters to the people here locally in the near my like my immediate nucleolus and my family. But I don't think I'm creating the connections that are deep enough that I'll just be a ripple on upon that fades in 10 seconds after I'm gone. And within that moment, someone gave me a question that really kind of changed everything. That if you want to result in your life never had you need to do something you've never done. And for me, that was friends. I never had a deep connection to friends. I never had them in high school. I had a few good ones in the Marine Corps, but I never was able to have good deep connections. And so I get the question like, what was me doing? Well, I wasn't talking to people because I was afraid of the rejection that could come from it. When you say hello, like it sounds crazy, which I did say it was crazy. So I decided to do something about it. And I started talking to dads at the park. And when I started talking to dads at the park, I realized better parts of myself were being reflected back, they would say things like wow, that was really insightful or, and the way you put words together is really good. And those little breadcrumbs started me pulling something back, took a long road to get there. And fast forward a little bit in 2017, I had this idea to just be a life coach that was wordly where the first idea of entrepreneurship came from I was like, I'm kind of good at everything. Like coaches are good at everything. Why not try to be a life coach. And then it hit me a little bit deeper. And I was like I could be a veteran life coach. So then I just started blogging. And that was really where I was just kind of finding my voice exercising that thought but I still had zero self confidence because in the back of my head, there was this one thought people like you don't do things like this. And so I would always just tiptoe into these different things never go full in, never go so far in that I couldn't get myself back out because in the back of my head. If you put yourself out there, you're going to get hurt. And when I did get hurt and whatever small little way my brain would be like, See, I told you I told you not to put yourself out there and you did. And it was just kind of come back. then fast forward. September of 2018 I went to
Ben Killoy 15:00
Military influence or conference. And I started talking to a military spouse about my story coming home as a dad and trying to be a better dad and husband in person. And she started crying. What I realized in that moment was her husband came home from war, but never emotionally came home. And he's just on autopilot. And then I also realized in that moment that my story and voice did that. And that kind of just clicked in my heart that this is my mission. This is where I'm putting all my energy. And I started running towards launch date of January 1 2019. And just kept putting my voice out there through repetition. I would say that voice was still there, though, like, Don't go too far, so you don't get hurt. But then it kind of all transcended a little bit further on the other side of losing my job. In 2020, I also added a solo Podcast, where I was really getting good at telling stories, telling my story, putting myself out there being okay, if someone doesn't understand the story, or and we're just working through it. But then it kind of just kept going deeper and deeper. And what I realized through that whole journey was, I am a person of value, what I say can have an impact. And it does have an impact. And by me not putting it out there. I'm just not being who I am. I'm just hiding who I am. And I'm not comfortable with that. I'm not happy when I'm not when I'm hiding who I am. And then the one word that kind of almost threw all that is home, like I came home. My podcast is mission from the very beginning was to bring every day at home. And what I've realized through those 110 interviews, is most men are looking for the feeling of home and all the wrong places they look for it and work that look for it and things they can build. But at the end of the day, they're still looking for that feeling. And when they walk through the door of their home, it's not there. And that makes them feel really uneasy, but they don't know why. And so that's when I have evolved what I learned with the military dad podcast into the business to fatherhood, which has now taken this feeling of home. And I've realized that this isn't just a military problem, this is a merican problem, and really a man problem within 2021 that most men are finding purpose in their life within buildings of work. But that's not what makes a man feel alive. And so the business of fatherhood is helping men come home, get excited about coming through that door. Get excited about being a dad and understanding that what you learn at work can be applied at home as well. Like it's not a you need to learn a whole new set of skills. Most dads just need to do a few tweaks. And the same stuff you learn at work can be applied at home.
Paul Zelizer 17:24
I want to get into the business of fatherhood and what you're doing there. Before we do that, I just want to walk it back just a little bit, you kind of passed over quickly two things that seem really important. And you've thought about these two things a lot. And this is something I know I got asked a lot about when we had the men's center going and even now's pretty visible in my community, somebody who's in men's groups, and does a lot of men's volunteer work. I get asked this still very often. And those two things are, first of all, just you talked about men. Let's let's call it emotional intelligence in our families, right? Like what's going on there that so many men and you and I both live in America. So let's say so many men in America, although I've certainly heard from around the world that so many men are struggling to just practice good relationship skills, good emotional intelligence. Even with the people we care about the most. You've thought about that a lot. And unpack that a little bit for us. What do you think's going on their
Ben Killoy 18:27
way back, I think it was first started trending in the wrong direction around the Industrial Revolution, because from the round, once the industrial revolution started coming, men started going into factories and men started being defined not by what would they created with their hands through farming and agriculture. But through the work that they went, and they didn't get paid a lot. But this is where they were able to, if I don't get to work and earn that 10 cents an hour, I can't provide for my family. And it was that kind of switch that men need to go do this and to make their family feel safe, they need to go do that. And it just kept perpetuating. And as much as I like the lead with the beaver TV show. The idea of what Leave it to Beaver also gave us was a poor model of what parenting looks like that the dad just doesn't go to work, come home and read the newspaper, and waits for dinner. A dad is an active participant within the family and plays just as strong of a role as the mom does. But because of how what society has wired the role of men that are your purpose is to go off in the world create and build and to provide for your family. But your family doesn't need you to provide money. They need you to provide emotional leadership of what it looks like and help your kids understand growing through the world. And it's just a lot of times we've just adopted modeling provided by our father that's passed down from one father to another. And we often don't pause to just question. There was a CEO that I was talking to a couple weeks ago. And he was talking about that he was like I don't want to be dead but I don't think I'm wired for it. And I challenged him back. I'm like, What if you're just miss wired? What if it's a matter of just switching the polarity that when you're home, you're actually more magnetically attracted. And you just need to switch your positive and negative and it's no longer to South magnets pointing towards each other, any pause for a minute, and he's like, you might be onto something there because we just don't challenge the model that's in front of us. And I mean, I see it on Facebook, it's one of the saddest posts that I see is, yeah, I'm doing 68 hours a week. And my family is not happy. Or I'm not getting all the attention that I'm trying to, I'm doing all these things for my family, but they don't care. And the most important thing that I've been repeating as much as possible, is we're not human doings. We're human beings. And that being is who we need to be. And that's the part that we get messed up, our kids need us to be present, they need us to engage with them. They don't need you to do more things outside of the family to provide a house vacation, they need you to be there, they need you to be there when they had a bad day at the playground, when they had a bad day with a relationship with their teenager, and they just broke up. And in military, this is even harder because mom and dad aren't always there, they get deployed. And when you come home, they need you. They need you to fill in the gaps for where they wanted to have a conversation. But you weren't there. And most dads are so caught up with the doing. They forget this really simple component when their kids are young. And it plays out when they're teenagers as well and more magnified way. If you're not there for the little things in their life. They won't bring you the big things, because the little things are the tests. Were you there in third grade when they had a fight on the playground? And to them that was as real as you losing your job. Did you listen? Or do you tell them you were too busy? That was a test for later on when you're going to get a phone call. And they say Dad, I was in an accident? Do they feel safe telling you that while you were being tested in third grade, or whether you're going to create that space, and it's those little tricks there, those little switches. And it's like you can still provide as a father, you can still go off in the world and work. But you need to be able to come home and be who you are and turn that component off. And it's not defined by work. fatherhood is a dad is a verb to doing. You help your kid to grow into better and stronger adults and to me, we've just don't talk about it enough. And to kind of wrap that thought up. For millennia, men survived and tribes, we always had people ahead of us. And we always had people behind us. And it was never on us to figure everything out. In the last 100 years, we thought we could do different. I think we're seeing the consequences of that. And I've heard Dr. Meg Meeker. Say that if you want to solve a lot of the problems in America today, put a dad in every street corner because these kids are looking for leadership. And if it's not dad that provides it, they will find an organization, a gang of drug dealer, whatever it may be, they will find leadership and it won't be the person that you want.
Paul Zelizer 22:58
I remember when I was being trained. One of my key mentors in the men's work was a wonderful man named Dr. Steven botkin. And his latest venture is something called men's resources International. And Steven taught us that the dysfunctional training for women so much of it is about he said women are sex objects or get trained to be sex objects about how they look and appearance and be seen and not heard and all of that dysfunction and really harmful gender training. And for men, it was often about being success objects or cogs in a machine and what we do at work and the money we provide and the material foundation is the expression of care, but it's like the only one that's valued. Like I did my job right now I sit down at the knees pay for her I like I'm told like, Don't tell me about that via third grade, like I went to work and retired today, right. And I really appreciate your naming how harmful that could be and how beneficial it is to show up and be present with our families and our kids in a very engaged way. So thanks for carrying that message. You talked about daughter's there. And I want to highlight a simple, simple idea that why fatherhood is important not just for boys, but for girls as well because the man that you are every day how you lead yourself will be the bar that your daughter goes off into the world defined. He must know that song fathers write a father speaker to your daughter does that not make you want to cry or why? Right? Yes. And like I always joke the dad with a shotgun at the door is a dad to set the bar low. Like you're afraid of who she's gonna go out and find cuz you're afraid because you knew who you are. But if you set the bar high, you treated a woman you treated your wife in a respectful way and you set an example. This is how you treat a woman. She's always going to come to the right conclusion. This guy is not my dad, he's she's gonna kick him to the curb. But if you were not that dad, then you just create This conflict, she doesn't know who to go out there and find and it creates all these different interactions. And a lot of what you hear within girls and dating and all this stuff, a lot of that is rooted where they weren't modeled the healthy relationship of love from their father. And so they always go out in the world and try to find it from anybody that's willing to get it. And it usually always ends up in this cycle that doesn't break. And that starts with Dad, dad provides a model of love for his daughter. And he provides a model for his son of what treating a woman looks like. Both of those are so important they come from dad, and they can't be provided if you're always at work. So after all these podcast episodes and all these like speaking engagements and conferences, I just love all these will be in the show notes, folks, military dad podcast, the stay at home dad, con dad, 2.0, conference, Stevens initiative, etc, etc. You come up with this way of talking about the work now called the business of fatherhood, tell us like give us a top level sketch and this idea of home in working with men around showing up in their families in a different way tile tucked us a little bit about this new body where
Ben Killoy 26:14
what I noticed when I was looking through all the different Facebook groups and different men posting and their questions, they always have like a five paragraph explanation of what's wrong with their life. And even through the episodes that I've done through my own life and what I used to come home, I've really narrowed it down to this one, almost bulletproof question that cuts right through whatever filter they have in their head. I asked them, How well do you lead yourself? And I honestly have never been asked that question in my journey. But as I unpacked my episodes as I unpack my journey, as I unpacked my desire to understand leadership, that was the first thing I've really squirreled. As far as understanding more on just learning more leadership information is actually not about leadership in the context of business and motivating people. It's actually self leadership that got me through what I needed to go through, it gives me it's what I've seen within the dads that are really good. It's, they learn how to lead their own life. And that create an environment where people want to follow them. And it's that self leadership that creates a change in your life, if you have a marriage that's dysfunctional, if you have a relationship with your kids is dysfunctional. The question that you need to always go back to how well are you leading yourself? Are you able to keep your heartbeat as the lowest one in the room? Are you able to calm your temper? Are you quick to anger? Is your health in order? How well do you prioritize your time? Are you always running around like your heads cut off? That is self leadership and how you lead yourself will be how you lead your life. And what I've learned. And the reason why it's called the business of fatherhood is a lot of the leadership lessons that successful men learn at work are the same leadership lessons that you apply at home. And my favorite want to talk about is, as a CEO of the company, you might have one or two good ideas, but it's not unusual to have all the ideas. And almost every CEO knows this, like yeah, the team members have and I just helped give it oxygen I help it grow and encouragement to make sure we can get it done. The same thing applies at home as men, when we walk in the door, we often just think oh yeah, it's on me to figure out everything and plan everything. But I always tell dads we struggle with connection. Give the kids the keys, the bus, ask them what they want to do. Why is it on us to come up with their ideas, it's not at work that way. It's the same idea at work leadership is actually helping your kids figure out what to do next, helping them understand that you value their opinion, just like you value an employee's opinion. And so the business to fatherhood is focused on tying these little dots together of these lessons you learn at work and leadership, the same things that allowed you to find the big success at work, and tie that into fatherhood. And realize the path home is a lot easier than you think. And it's just these few short connections and twists and leadership that allows you to cross that door and get excited and you realize you've had all the tools the entire time. It's just no one really articulated in a way that allows you to plug him into fatherhood.
Paul Zelizer 29:12
Fabulous, Pam. So what I want to do now is I want to take a break when we come back, I want to hear more about what does it look like with working with man? And what are the different ways revenue comes in? And so we're gonna unpack that in just a second. But now a word from our sponsor. Do you have a business that's about making the world a better place and you want it to grow both in terms of your impact? You want to help more people and your income you want to live a good quality life? If so, I'd like you to consider podcasting for a minute. When you look at who listens to podcasts, it's a pretty special group of humans and in particular three things stood out to me when I looked at the research, podcast listeners, number one are what are known in the research as early adopters. podcast listeners love new ideas. That's one of the main reasons they listen to podcasts, it's a time effective way to learn about what's going on in any space you can possibly imagine. Number two podcast listeners are what are known as natural leaders, Ben was just talking about leadership. They're the kind of folks that people in both their professional and personal and community networks turn to to, you know, when things get challenging, or they need a new idea, or they're a little bit stuck. In number three podcast listeners make more money, not just a little bit, but quite a bit. When you put those together, it's a pretty unique group of humans. And if you have something that's innovative, and about making the world a better place, I don't know if any other bit better way to grow a social business. If you could use a hand learning how to do that, how do you leverage podcasts either as a guest like Ben is today fabulous guest Thank you, Ben, or I have the honor of being a host today. And Ben has two podcasts, we're gonna learn about second one he's watching because he loves podcasting so much. If you use a little hand, learning how to leverage podcasting aware printers has a podcast success team. And we'll walk you through every step of the way, whether you're interested in being a guest host, or both. You can find out more by going to a where printers.com forward slash podcast dash success. And thank you to everybody in the podcast success team who's helped sponsor this podcast.
Ben Killoy 31:24
So then you have this new body of work. And we were just talking about podcasting. And we talked about podcast number one, but as part of this new body of work called the business of fatherhood, you have another podcast tell us a little bit about that. So this podcast was born out of a series that I hinted at earlier, where it's called fatherhood Friday, and it's a solo series that I started in the beginning of January 2020. Before World and crazy before I lost my job, I just realized I had more things to say, than I've ever time to say it's I'm like, Okay, why not just add another segment. And I really fell in love with it, it's actually I enjoy the solo part more than I enjoy the interview. Because it's just a exercise in storytelling, it's an exercise in thought. And it just really helps in all the other areas, you get clarity and different things, and just putting your voice and story out there just really helped overall. So I did that all of 2020. But then I was on a bike ride, I was actually rewinding a little I was sitting in my office, Pavlova ROM had lots of emails, and I was like, You know what, it's a nice summer day, I'm gonna go for a bike ride. And I've had my some of my best ideas, riding bikes with my kids, that's one of the pro dads entrepreneurs that I've learned is, you're not going to have your best ideas. When you're sitting at your desk doing work, you're gonna have it when you're being dad, and I was riding my bike and it hit me. I could have a daily stay at home dad podcast, I'm trying to figure it out. I'm a little bit ahead of the curve on a few things, I probably could help a lot of people. But I didn't do anything with it, it just kind of became an edge. And that itch kept growing and growing and growing. I still it just didn't, didn't feel like I had the model, right. And so as I was thinking through in the winter came on, something hit me I don't remember the exact moment when I came up with the business of fatherhood. As this first idea didn't, I thought it was gonna be a first just an interview show. But I kind of just marinate it in my head. And then as I launched my coaching program, at the same time, it's time to come home. I realized as I end even more with this idea of home, and I realized that these men that have climbed the corporate ladder, they often find that they're leaving their family behind. They don't know how to go back and pick them up. They're afraid to admit it. I was like, I wonder if there's anybody serving them. And so I did some quick googling, and I realized there is only one daily dad podcast in the podcast universe. And I was like, wow, that's kind of odd. And I always grew up on Entrepreneur on Fire within my entrepreneur journey from john Lee Dumas. So I had this like, I've always had in the back of my head, a seven day a week, 30 minute podcast, interviewing entrepreneurs. So that was way back there, also in the back of my head. And that was like, I think I could do a daily, short five to seven minute episode, focusing on fatherhood. And I think because they're busy dads, they would find a lot of value in it, because they don't have to commit to listen to a long interview to find the little tidbits that could help them. This is the one two punch that they need every single day to come home and be a better dad. And I was like, I think this is it. And so I knew enough about podcasting that was not going to podcast unaided. And I was like, This isn't fully perfect. But it doesn't matter. This is too good of an idea to not let out in the universe. And so just went through my own podcasting course in my own mind and launched it. And as I was getting ready and recording the first few episodes, and I was relisting them, and the way in the car recently and I was just like sinking them with this feeling. And I was like, I think this is going to be something special. Because I had I've been in the dead space and podcasting space for almost five years now. And I hadn't heard anything like this before. And like you just have those moments where the universe aligns. And you're like, I think this is it. But the ironic part I'm sure you see this with other web runners and social entrepreneur. We often get focused on this one idea, this first idea has to be the idea. Well, actually, my journey was I had to do all those other things, I had to gain confidence, I had to find the love of podcasting, I had to grow my network, I had to exercise, my voice, my thoughts, my storytelling, all of those things had to happen, I had to rise to those peaks to be able to see the horizon, to be able to see this big, big, big idea that was bigger than military veteran dead. And it focuses on that word home. Like, this isn't just a military problem. It's a global problem. Men don't come home emotionally. But I had to climb those first mountain, to see the horizon of where this next idea was. And most people stand at the base of a mountain wondering is this mountain I should climb for my big idea. And we'll stand there forever. But we don't realize and what I didn't realize way back then was, it doesn't matter whether it's the big idea, what you have to remember is you can't see your billion dollar idea until you change your perspective, climb the mountain that's in front of you, which then changes how you see the landscape of what you're learning. And that allowed me to see this new idea the business of fatherhood,
Paul Zelizer 36:10
pod crass donating, I love that. Oh my gosh, that's like, that's, that's the thing.
Ben Killoy 36:19
Like people will say, like me, I've been taught, I've been trying to watch this podcast for six months. And I'm like, Okay, what do you need six years? One thing? Six years, six months, six years? Anyway, thank you for that vocabulary. Because Yeah, we need a word for that. Thank you so much for that.
Paul Zelizer 36:34
And just in terms of that format, maybe think of the marketing my favorite, favorite favorite marketing podcast is called marketing school with Neil Patel, and Eric Sue, and does that exact format five or six days a week, you know, five to seven, sometimes three minute episodes, little tidbits of just, I think from some of the best marketers on the planet. And it's incredibly successful. So anyway, just a little different space. But that format is, if you want to see a live example of that, listeners, I'll put a link to the marketing school also put a link to Ben's new podcast the business of fatherhood. So then you were just talking about your program? Yeah, this program called it's time to come home, tell us a little bit more about what that program is all about and who it's for. It's essentially based on my own life. So I didn't, no one told me to do this. But I just kind of naturally worked from it that my avatar is my life about six years ago. So when I turned 30, that was kind of like the Dark Pit. And so whenever I need to figure out what to do, I think what did Ben need six years ago, that would have really changed the game, what kind of things that he needed to hear, in order to accelerate his learning and his focus on life. And so my program is essentially based in all the different areas that I had to grow, to work on. So like in the program, the first two weeks, we really what I described is we get out the GPS, we get out the map, and we locate where are you on the map, it's like going to a waste site, and you see the URL here pin, that's the most important part that I've learned within coaching is a lot of time and even then the coaching that I paid for, I get pulled to a place. But then because I don't really know where I came from, and I don't always know where I'm headed, I kind of look around, I'm like, this isn't where I wanted to go. And so I spend a significant amount of time just making sure we know where we are. And then we start focusing on where we want to go. Because once we know where we are, and then we can decide where we want to go, we can get the GPS out and get clear destinations. It helps men focus on why are you doing all this? If you are a human doing what's what's the point? Are you What's your legacy gonna be? That's something we spend a lot of time on, what do you want to leave behind? What kind of empire Are you building that you want to pass on to your kids, if you are building an empire? And just kind of going through these different areas, like a tribe is another example? Why is it important to have men in your life that can help share the load when life gives you something too heavy, because life is always going to give you something too heavy, and you need people in your life to share the load. You need to know more people, that's how opportunity happens. You can't do it alone. If you have a big idea, you need to start finding people that can help give oxygen to that big idea. And we just go through the process that I wish I had gone through and I take essentially those six years and compound it down into eight weeks, and help that process bring dads home back to this idea and give them a vision that they can wake up every day and get excited about coming home to their house. I was laughing to myself, I didn't want to interrupt you but either What did Ben need to dot dot dot and was like aware printers exist because when Paul was starting his business, there were all these like great people doing like, inner consciousness work approach to business. And then there were like the real hardcore entrepreneurs, and they were talking like marketing metrics and stuff. And I'm like, but I'm both like I meditate and I care about metrics. And like, I felt like total schism and I couldn't be both and I needed a place where we could talk about all those things. And here we are on a podcast called the enterpreneurs. So anyway, I was just laughing and most entrepreneurs get stuck in it. To me it's like when an entrepreneur is stuck and they don't know what their big idea is.
Ben Killoy 40:00
That's the question I always go inward with. Like, it may not be your big, big idea, but it will plow the road for what you need to learn and grow with to get you like, for me, it was like military veteran Dad, what did I need my perfect avatar, that gave me the vision to expand even bigger, but I had to go on my own journey. And by starting with your own self, like you eliminate 80% of the reasons why you can't start a podcast, because you know exactly who you're talking to, you know exactly what he was thinking, you know, all the shortcuts that you don't have to do a bunch of interviews, because you are the person that you're trying to help. And it just can get you that much more lift quicker. And once you get moving within podcasting, then the growth can start happening, like a hockey stick. But as you already know that the growth can happen until you hit Publish. And it's the saddest thing when someone hasn't hit publish, because all the hard work is just a neutral until you publish. And it's more important to have momentum within podcasting, and really not even an entrepreneurship. Because as you keep changing your perspective, you keep changing, what you see is capable of what you can do. I call it steady loving presence in the marketplace. And it's pretty much if somebody says, I want to build a business, and they're not willing to do that, I say, you probably need to find somebody else because I can't help you. I don't I don't, I literally don't know how a business can grow without being lovingly present and being of service to the people that you want to serve. So that reminds me of something my own journey like December 2019, I had to have an entrepreneur's probably could go through especially the social entrepreneurs, because it is a project built in hardwired to your soul, that when you look in the mirror, a lot of self development in my journey in the program is focused on Who do you see what words do you describe, because what I learned is, you can't unconditionally love the other people in your life, if you can't unconditionally love yourself. And when you have that peace with yourself in the mirror, then what the universe brings you is more aligned with what you want. It's more aligned with that sense of greed, but a sense of purpose. But as long as you're looking for the universe to fill in those gaps for places where you don't love yourself, the social entrepreneurship model falls apart almost because the universe isn't gonna provide what you need to grow that social conscious business. Because if you can't begin to start with love on the inside, the things that you bring on your outside, it's just not gonna be aligned with where you need to go. So I love what you're saying there, Ben. And that might not be familiar language to many men. And let's just talk about like, when you look at the landscape, personal growth and coaching and spiritual development, etc, etc. Many of those communities are mostly women. And to be even more specific, they're mostly white women. If there's men listening to the show, and they're like, hearing you like, wow, here's a dude. He's like,
Paul Zelizer 42:50
talking about growth in the universe. And
Ben Killoy 42:54
I'm a Marine, on his emotions, right about love. Yeah, I'm known for it the size of the hugs that I give the barrows. I'm like a walking talking oxymoron. Oh, well, when you and I get together, I'm a trail runner who just did the rim to rim to rim and gives really big hugs and former football players anyway? Did it with my Army Ranger friend, right. So anyway,
Paul Zelizer 43:15
when you're thinking about personal growth and program like it's time to come home, how does personal development and growth and relationships? What's what have you learned about making those topics both safe and engaging to Matt?
Ben Killoy 43:37
It's a really good question. I think what I've learned talking to so many different men, is the first part that I often realize it's almost kind of the first early indicator of a different approach or where I may have to go in a different direction. They almost don't even have a capacity to describe a feeling. They're very short one to two or three word sentences, or they're often just saying, Yeah, I think you're right. Yep, I think you're right. But they don't ever, like dive into a deeper sense of it. There's, there's almost a lot of the men that I work with, have this early childhood programming that to feel safe, I need to shut down. For whatever reason, they didn't have a capacity or they didn't have an environment where they could feel safe to be who they were, to cry a little bit to get excited to feel alive to have that masculine energy flow through your veins. And so for surviving, your brain just kind of learned that you don't get to feel what you need to feel, and you just shut down and you go back to work, work gives me my definition that I feel like I need and really what it comes down to unpack that is what I kind of call the shadows that every man has his shadows. And that's where usually where your ego comes into play, like a man that shows his ego of trying to hide or is always trying to boast himself about certain things. There's usually almost always something in their shadows that they don't want you to see. They're using their ego to try to hide it. And a lot of the coaching begins with what's in those shadows because subconsciously, your brain spending a lot of RAM to use a computer analogy to hide what's in that shadows and make sure no one ever sees it. And a lot of the process of coming home and getting more awakened and getting more emotional, the feel your kids emotions and not get upset when your kids get upset, is working that shadows and I love the analogy of Superman, I've been using this quite a bit that Superman matter what happened to him whether kryptonite cut him whether he was wounded whatever situation he got into where he's no longer invincible, the light and the sun always heals those wounds. And that's the process of coming home is figuring out what's in those shadows that you are hiding, that you've been using work to really not acknowledge. And to just kind of avoid, bring that into the light. And what you already know what most men don't, is vulnerability is not something that's kryptonite, and you explode when you bring those things out, it actually becomes magnetic, like vulnerability is something that is attractive. It's something that brings people closer, and it allows it to heal and it no longer has power over you like a podcast like for me. One thing that therapeutic wise for podcasting is, the more I share a story emotion from my life, the less power it has over me. So the more times I repeatedly pull it in the light, it slowly starts to build the habits power. And I've always loved the analogy that a scar like a human scar like tissue on your skin, it heals two times stronger than the original tissue that was there, but only after it's healed. And that's what we need to have done to either be a trauma situation or just bad programming, we need to acknowledge it, bring it into the light. And when men bring that into light, and it's why I do with my podcasting, we give permission for other people to go second. And that permission can change someone's life. I've had people I've told my story about friends and dads in the park. And right after it, I've had dads come up to me crying, because I put words to feelings they didn't know how to describe. And that was a component where it almost pulled out of the shadows because without he didn't really know it was there. And once he was there, he just couldn't help it feel a very strong emotion to it. But that idea the shadows, that is really where we need to look. And that's why I spent the first two weeks talking about what's in those shadows, how can we pull them out what's really holding you back? Like get to the truth? I often equate it to a few good men. Where can you handle the truth that most men can't. Within the program, we get to the point where we need to handle the truth, the truth is okay. And once we let it go to quote frozen, what is possible on the other side of that, what can you get to do by stepping in your power just like she did in frozen to
Paul Zelizer 47:41
amend her mind and mentor said, Every time we choose to step through the door, the doorway gets a little wider. And just could feel that like you stepping through and sharing that story about being a dad at the park wanting to connect and overcoming all the training that got in the way and actually doing it just you know, opening that door to other dads that is Yeah, I binge watched NCIS last year and there was a story where Gibbs was going through some stuff. And it was brilliant advice that I repeat often. One man story is another man's door. But that door doesn't open until that one man shares and that one man doesn't share until he recognizes that this story has had one too many days control over my life. And it's time for me to let it go. But by sharing it, you create a door in a room where most men don't feel like that even exists. I know that's my podcast, I've got reviews, saying that I have my husband has been because he listen to your podcast and decided to go seek help. My stories create doors and windows really didn't even know they existed. That's the power of vulnerability. And that's the power of letting go of those things that are holding you back and not focusing on work. But being more of who you are. Good. To podcasts now, coaching one on one is a fabulous new program, we'll put a link to it call this time to come home. My sense has been you're somebody who doesn't do things, you know, randomly, let's just say and that you're somebody who has like a vision. And you talked about earlier kind of climbing that mountain and being able to see a big perspective. So give us a perspective. Five years down the road. What What do you want? How do you want life to be for men and for dads and how do you want to make a contribution towards that?
Ben Killoy 49:29
It still goes back to this word home. I almost don't believe how, like it took me two and a half years to truly figure out what this word meant. And it was the mission of my podcast to bring every dad home for military veteran dad and it was there in the beginning I kept repeating it but I honestly didn't know what it how deep it was. And as this podcast business, fatherhood takes shape and the messaging I've always struggled with people always tell me you should write a book and you should write a book and I'm like, Yeah, I should but I don't really know what and it never felt right and never aligned my gut. This idea Home aligns in my gut that I believe five years from now, I have a book called The business of fatherhood, it's time to come home. And that my primary message is helping men navigate that journey from where they are as a human doing to coming back to being a human being, accepting the role of fatherhood, being present within their families, and creating a legacy of family. That changes the family tree forever. I truly believe the more dads that come home, to their families and start leading them, we will create the real change that we need within the African American community, the white community, any community that struggles with connection and cohesive nuclear families, dad's coming home, can help create that change. And it is my will be my mission, that focus on that idea and spread that message of coming home. Because what I found so far, googling, it is not something being talked about, and I feel more and more than my life has been aligned towards this big idea, as the more is that I whittle it down. And I will just keep diving into what does it truly mean to come home? And how can I make a bigger and deeper impact and help men take that journey because fatherhood has never mattered more than in 2020 and beyond. And it will be my mission to help dads recognize that true power and create a legacy that is generational, not just one within their own life.
Paul Zelizer 51:26
And I could hang out with you all day. But I would like to you our tour listeners. If there was something we'll put links to everything. We talked about cleaning the program, etc. in the show notes listeners that don't worry here. I mean, you can Google it, but we'll try to make your job easy. Then if there was something you were hoping we were going to get to about this really and top important topic of fatherhood and families and showing up in you know, both our micro communities of our family and our larger community. And we haven't gotten to it yet. Or there's something you want to leave our listeners with as we say goodbye. What would that be? There's a couple different lessons that come to mind. And one of them was learned last summer. If you want to change the world, you start by your family, neighborhood, community, and so forth. And most men do it backwards. That I find I have three kids and I often wiggling bike rides with 10 kids in the community. And I often find myself thinking like this is just what fatherhood looks like. And just last week, I had two kids with stomach flus and that weak fatherhood look like holding the hair back for my four year old daughter over the toilet. But that I was so proud of myself being present for that and acknowledging that that fatherhood isn't always glamorous, but being there is what matters. And there are so many things that prevent us from being there, but it's only really ourselves that are preventing us from doing it. And that question about self leadership. All of that ties back to this. My story be changed when I found friends at the park. And I believe wholeheartedly that that is where other dads stories can change because most dads just don't have a good friend. And what I've learned, the biggest lesson that I've learned throughout that from entrepreneurship, whether your Dad Mom, is the amount of opportunity you have in your life is directly proportional to the amount of new people that you're talking to. And you were always one conversation away from changing your life. And you're gonna miss 100% of those shots you don't take you don't know what's on the other side of that Hello. And for me, it was everything that I just talked about and shared with you saying hello to dad at the park literally created a ripple in a pond that is continuing to ripple and continuing to change my life. And that was on the other side of Hello. Think of what that could do in your life. And whether maybe you feel like you're lost on this episode that we don't you don't know where to start, start with Hello. Because on the other side is everything that you've always wanted. And you'll never know until you're saying hello.
Ben Killoy 53:53
And thanks for being on the show today and for the really important work that you do. Thank you Paul for encouraging me and being helping a lighthouse and a cheerleader through this process. Because as you know, it can be a lonely area being a podcaster and an entrepreneur and finding your tribe. finding people to do life with that is one of the most essential people to or essential principles to help just get to where you need to go.
Paul Zelizer 54:16
So that's all the time we have for today's episode. Again, take a look at the show notes. There's lots of good stuff there to this week. Really, really good stuff. Before we go, I just want to remind you that we love listener suggested topics and guests. That's how this episode happened as a matter of fact. So if you have something you did, or someone you'd like to suggest, go to a where printers website, look at our contact page, we have three simple criteria. It'll give you a sense of what we're looking for. And if you have something that you think checks those boxes, please reach out, let us know what you're thinking. So for now, I just want to say thank you so much for listening. Please take really good care and these point in times, and thank you for all the positive impact that you're working for in our world.