192 | Self-care for Caregivers and Activists with Christine Gautreaux
Christine Gautreaux is dedicated to the pursuit of play, joy, art & social justice. Christine’s superpowers include connecting people, helping folks manifest their dreams, standing up against injustice and using art to make a difference in the world. She currently uses performance art, movement, poetry, storytelling and Interplay to address issues of oppression with women who are incarcerated, people living with severe and persistent mental illness and homelessness. She also works with activists and artists to maintain balance and self-care during these intense times we find ourselves living.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
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Christine Gautreaux Awarepreneurs Interview
SPEAKERS
Paul Zelizer, Christine Gautreaux
Paul Zelizer 00:01
Hi, this is Paul Zelizer, and welcome to another episode of The Awarepreneurs Podcast. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things, conscious business, social impact, and awareness practices. Each episode, I do a deep dive interview with a thought leader in this intersection. Someone who has market tested experience, and is already transforming many lives. Before I introduce our guests and our topic, and I'm really excited about our guests and our topic, it's related to one of our core values as aware printers. I'd like to ask one thing if you could go to iTunes and hit the subscribe button do a rating it helps tremendously. Thank you so much.
So today, I'm thrilled to introduce Awarepreneurs Community member Christine gautreaux. And our topic today is self care for entrepreneurs and activists and self care literally is one of the core values of aware printers. Christine holds a bachelor's and a master's degree in social work, and is dedicated to the pursuit of play joy, art and social justice. She's a co author of stillpoint, a caregivers playbook to find ease and to take a deep breath and reclaim joy. Christine's superpowers include connecting people helping folks manifest their dreams, standing up against injustice, and using the art to make and using art to make a difference in the world. She currently uses performance art, movement, poetry, storytelling and interplay to address issues of oppression with women who are incarcerated, people are living with severe and persistent mental illness. And Christine, we're just thrilled to have you on the show. Welcome.
Christine Gautreaux 01:33
Oh, thanks, Paul. I know so delighted to be here. It feels like a new day today, doesn't it?
Paul Zelizer 01:39
Oh, my gosh, yes, we for those of you who are wondering what she's talking about, because this won't go live. We are literally recording the day after the inauguration of a new administration here in the US. And yeah, many people, not just in the US, but I've been getting emails from around the world and Facebook messages and LinkedIn messages. Congratulations, and How you all doing and, you know, oh my gosh, for my daughter's, you know, when she was an exchange student, her family in Germany, and you know, just like literally from all around the world, you know, Africa and some of our members like it just it literally feels like we're in a different phase.
Christine Gautreaux 02:17
Right, breathing a little deeper.
Paul Zelizer 02:20
A lot little deeper. Welcome, and congratulations. So, Christina, as you know, we're called Awarepreneurs. And one of the ways we like to get to know somebody is to ask about a wellness or an awareness practice that you personally use to resource yourself for the important work that you do.
Christine Gautreaux 02:36
And maybe you can ask me this question because I am pretty faithful listener to your podcast. And I was like, Paul's gonna make me pick one. And I have a hard time picking one of anything. So here's, here's what I'm gonna say about my wellness practices. I have a whole toolbox of them to choose from, because that's part of what I teach in the world is self care. And I would say my top three are my outdoor walks in my labyrinth. So I do walking meditations. And I also am lucky enough that I teach one of my wellness practices, which is inner play, which uses movement and storytelling and voice. So like, right before I got on this call, I was, you know, dancing around my office getting in my body getting present. And the other thing I would say, is art, because I had a teacher one time, say to me, we must make art out of what happens to us. And that is something that I practice as a wellness.
Paul Zelizer 03:38
Beautiful, and I love interplay and what you're doing with them, we'll get into that. Give us a little sense, Christine, this this passion like … well let’s backup. We're coming, you know, out of and but we're still in, in some ways, it's incredibly poignant time, just like this confluence of things that many entrepreneurs, activists and caregivers, you know, just a few data points, listeners, I was looking at some research that says, around the world, we've lost a whole bunch of jobs due to the pandemic and the economic crisis, etc. And most of those jobs have been for women, because caregiving is fallen more on the shoulders of women, 150,000 jobs, and almost all of them for women in the US, like, just, you know, gone and probably not coming back anytime soon. Not like, oh, next week, they'll come back online. Nope. So, you know, we've seen activists just burning out we've seen suicides we've seen I mean, it has been an incredibly challenging and intense time for caregivers and entrepreneurs and activists. So it's part of the reason that I'm so excited to have you hear Christine and what they give our listeners a little bit of a sense like, why are you so passionate you've dedicated your life to this topic. Why?
04:57
Right?
05:00
Why did you choose that?
05:03
There's so many reasons. You could have been a cartoonist.
Paul Zelizer 05:06
I don't know, you could have like, made smoothies. Why this passion for self-care for entrepreneurs and activists?
Christine Gautreaux 05:09
Well, funny story about that is both my parents are public educators. And I always said growing up, I'll never be a public educator because they don't make enough money, right? Well, when I got my degree in social work, my dad laughed and said, I think you pick the only profession that makes less. And you know, somebody else said, you know, MSW must save world, right? I'm trying to sort through all that and not be in that white savior position, but really break it down to the bones of why I do what I do. Because I really think that we are all connected and tied together. You know, when I was reading Dr. King's letter from Birmingham Jail, when he talks about why do we show up where we show up. And it's because your liberation is tied to my liberation. And I really, you know, for the activist piece, that's my Why is in where it ties in with the caregiver piece is, I belong to several organizations, where arts and activism meet. And I was on a national conference this year, and as part of their healing team. And one of the speakers was talking about, especially black women activists and caregivers of their community. The average age they're dying, is like 48 years old. And that broke my heart, that these women are so busy taking care of their communities, and their families, that they're not taking care of themselves. When we were in that meeting, we lost an activist who had gone in for a regular medical procedure, but she had put it off too long. And, and died on the operating room table. And, you know, that's a big part of my why is because I know and love people that this impacts directly. And I was thinking about this, you know, I think about this often, because, you know, when I'm working with clients, and we're, we're figuring out there why or when did it start? And often we look back at childhood, right? Like, where did some of this passion come from. And so to take it back even further, I was 14. And my grandfather had Alzheimer's before it was called Alzheimer's. Like really on his death certificate, I think it said, heart stopped working. And it was right when they were doing all the research about Alzheimer's, but we knew what it was, because the research was coming up and my grandmother was his caregiver. And she was, oh my gosh, my grandmother Mahoney. She was a feminist. She worked as an accountant. She was one of the first women who graduated from college, she served in World War Two. And she was just a badass, there's no other way to say it. And so she was caretaking my grandfather and holding down a job because she loved her job. And what that meant is she was hardly sleeping. And she wouldn't accept help. Like we as a family, I remember even being 14. And she was like, No, I got this, I got this. And she wouldn't accept help. And it was a long, long journey, that caregiving journey. It was well over two years. And but two really hard years. And my grandfather passed away. And my grandmother was redoing the house. She was putting in new carpet, she was taking one of the first computer classes ever offered. And she dropped dead of a brain aneurysm six months later. And I know, I knew at that time at 14 that it was because she had given everything in caregiving. Yeah, and her body couldn't handle it anymore. So when I think about that question, Paul, I was like, I think that's the root of it really, really, really, is to get deep. And and No, I don't want to I don't want to bump out your listeners about it being about grief and loss. But really, you know, I hold both in my hands all the time. In this work. I hold both grief and I hold gratitude. To in order to do this work, you have to look at both. And I think I think that's my that's my why.
Paul Zelizer 09:46
What a powerful story. Thanks for sharing that. Christine. I'm sitting with gosh, there's so much I want to say and so much I want to ask you, the one of the things that I'm sitting with is appreciation and gratitude them and ask you a question. That's Maybe not an easy question, but I'm grateful that we can ask it and talk about it here. I'm thinking about how often self care is, well, let's just call it white supremacy, because let's just call it that, right? How often the vision of what self care means is, you know, going to a fancy spa and having a spa day, right? Somebody who's like a little stressed, there's like a bunch, maybe there's some stuff going on the work and the kids and there's like, pulls on your attention. And, you know, usually the marketing for self care is more oriented towards a woman. So I'm thinking of a woman, and she's probably white in most mainstream publications, right? At least historically, that's what self care means, right? Go get yourself a nice massage and have a spa day get a facial, right? And like, gosh, that's so limited. I know it's not. So that's why I'm so glad to hear that. Yes, please talk about that.
Christine Gautreaux 11:01
What we have as a book, and what I talk about in my classes is, first of all, what self care is not? Because I think we have to identify that. And that is really important for caregivers, and activists and everyday people, right. So and this is, there's one of the second one, I would I probably need to get tattooed on my forehead just being in all honesty, because you know, sometimes we teach what we need to know. So self care is not continuing to educate and train ourselves to withstand more stress in order to take on more stress. And number two, self care is not putting ourselves through frequent reoccurring cycles of overwork, followed by crashing to recover. So that's what it's not what we define it as is self care is tuning in, and recognizing earlier and earlier, the subtle physical signs of potential difficulties. caring people become good at reading other people's body language, clenched jaw, stooped shoulders, and sad eyes. Self Care means tuning into ourselves, and learning how to read our own body language. So self care is really about tending. It's about being actively involved in tending to our own our own bodies, right? And so yeah, massages can be in there. Absolutely. But so can pay our bills. So can take a deep breath. So can paying attention when we're doing the work of undoing white supremacy, that we're paying attention to our bodies, and the other bodies in the space? And what's going on in those bodies to do this work. So yeah, there's a lot of misinformation, Paul, about like, and commercialization and white dominant culture about self care. And, you know, I was, I was thinking about about to one of your guests. I mean, it's been a while it may have it was last year for sure. Your guest, Andrea, was it Andre or Andrea? Renee, on J. Renee Johnson. Yeah. Andrea Renee Johnson, when she talked about sleeping, right. And resting, and like nap minister,
Paul Zelizer 13:23
ministry is
Christine Gautreaux 13:28
the power of that. And the power of there's different levels needed for different bodies, you know, bodies that have been under oppression, and have passed down generations of trauma, especially black bodies in the United States. Often, my friends of color need a lot more resting and tending to themselves, especially in times, like, we've just gone through this last year, you know, with the continued murders of black bodies, and yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. So breaking that down and realizing that we all need self care, no matter who we are, or what our income level is, or where we are in the world, that to show up and be our best selves, we need to be really doing our own work. You know, when we talk about racial justice work, we talked about starting with ourselves, right? I think about that in Thai in combination to the self care not being selfish, you know, it's not like, Oh, I gotta go do this. And I can't do that. But really tuning into ourselves and where is it living inside of us?
Paul Zelizer 14:41
Such a beautiful definition. And I love that you start there, Christine, and they what self care is not and I made two notes as you were talking. One is I love what you said it's not being selfish, right? That's not what we're talking about here. We're not talking about narcissism, right? We're talking about, you know, at its most extreme form, we're talking about not dying people right? Around right,
Christine Gautreaux 15:07
especially for caregivers and activist caregivers. We always say the studies in the data show that caregiving is a dangerous profession, that people are more the caregivers are more likely to die than the person they're taking care of. It's a long term caregiving situation, if they are not taking care of themselves at the same time. So I mean, we are talking some life and death situations here.
Paul Zelizer 15:35
The other thing that it's not to borrow some language from another aware of printers gas and big shout out to Andrea Renee love her work. We'll put a link to the show notes and episode her website. Andrea's freakin awesome, go listen to that. Another guest I'm hearing the echoes it's almost like we have hallways now like virtual Holly in the hallways are echoing with the sound and the wisdom. Now you're Christine and Andrea Renee and another fabulous guests, cat Kim, who talks about consumer spirituality. Self Care is not to borrow cats languaging consumer spirituality in other words, you're gonna buy yourself into feeling like like overworked and overstressed and too many things and pushed and pulled and like, you know, getting the capitalist dream of the nice car and the big house and the beautiful family, everybody with their own iPhones and multiple screens. Like that's consumer spirituality, right? And then you go to the spa, because you're absolutely fucking exhausted, exhausting vision that so many people aren't, it isn't there, they're not included at the beginning, you know, because of you know, they're not able or who they're in love with, or, you know, a color of their skin is etc. Background their family comes from. So it doesn't even include more than half of humanity. But even the people that it does include It's exhausting, right. So it's,
Christine Gautreaux 16:57
again, when you get that credit card bill, right, exactly. Right. Absolutely. And most of the folks I work with of course, some people like doing that stuff, and and if they have the funds to do it, they go for it. But you know, the ones lately in this pandemic, especially, like, just the simple act of going outside and putting your feet on the ground and taking some deep breaths and having a moment of peace has been a practice that a lot of folks are talking about the value of and that you know so often in our culture we are taught that we're supposed to be going going going and doing doing and if you you know and that the being is not valued and I think that shifting I know it shifting in the where you know where printers we it is that hallway of echo, right. But I think that I don't know it's very interesting. People have gone two ways this pandemic right there either completely shut down, or they are going going going trying to solve it that way. So,
Paul Zelizer 18:13
now that we've talked a little bit about what it's not Christine, talk to us a little more like how do you in particularly like one of the things I was literally a caregiver that's I worked my way through grad school as a caregiver. Women who had cerebral palsy, go to her house, make meals go shopping, like literally right? She wasn't dying, but she was you know, in a wheelchair electric wheelchair will be for the rest of her life. Right? She She literally can't go through her days without people coming out. That was that kind of caregiver that was literally my job title. And I've been caring for people ever since right? Oh, I I technically have a master's in community mental health counseling. But yes, I literally had the job just in New Mexico. The jobs were interchanged the license was interchangeable for a while so I literally have been a social worker and a community mental health counselor. So anyway, yes, I literally know that we're all pretty darn well then after 15 years I burned out I literally couldn't keep doing it. So this is not a theoretical conversation listeners. Not at all so particularly for I love caregivers, I love activists. I've dedic I've tried to be one I've dedicated my life, you know repositioned but still working with folks just in a different way. Like this is my life. And I just so here I've seen it. People I love are no longer on this planet for exactly the reasons you're talking about. It's been really painful to watch. There's been moments I didn't know if I was gonna make it. Not being not exaggerating errors is literally So help us okay, if I'm listening and I'm like, Alright, Christine, you got me. I hear you. We're not talking about like the fancy trip to some exotic guyland where you, you know, all right, if that's for you great. But that's not the only thing you're referencing. And that's part of the reason you're on the show, you have other thoughts and ways of being not just, you know, the people who have a private jet plane. That's not your intended audience. Now, so for our audience, like if somebody saying, you know, I could use a little help, Christine, how do I All right, it makes sense. I hear you. I know, it's important. I've seen myself not always do such a great job, or I've seen people in my community, I've lost people, or there have had significant consequences of not doing such a great job. When somebody can finally start to say, yeah, it's time to uplevel my self care, but I'm not a gazillionaire. I don't have a private mazouz. How do I do that in some meaningful way that like, yeah, it feels great to get outside for a few minutes, but my life is still pretty freakin stressful and right. What do I do? What do I do help me Christmas? What do we do?
Christine Gautreaux 21:07
Well, we talked about five skills of self care, there are skills around self care, that you can that you can build them into your life. So in the book, we talk about it through the myth of psyche, and we go through that whole myth, and it's a really fun story in the book, but I'm just going to cut to the chase for you and your readers. So the five skills of self care, one is sorting and separating what belongs to us from what belongs to others. And this can be really tricky, as a caregiver and an activist, right? Because some of the issues we are dealing with, are life and death. Right? So how do we separate ourselves from it sometimes and give a little space and realize that, you know, it's okay to take that 30 extra minutes in the morning to whatever your practice is to walk to read. I always talk to folks about going back to the basics, that, you know, what's your, how clean eating? Are
22:10
you?
Christine Gautreaux 22:11
Like? What's what works for your body? What about how much water? Are you drinking? And are you moving your body every single day. And I know those sounds so simple, Paul. But that's like the Keystone and the foundation to these bodies that we're working around in. And it's so easy sometimes to put that to the side for other people's needs, when you're in that position, right? So sorting and separating. As far as like, when some of the big happens, or if you are, you know, a lot of times, let me back up and see how I want to say this, you know, as human beings in crisis situations, how we go into the fight or flight, but a lot of times like we get really hyper focused and we are in it, right? We are in the crisis situation, and our bodies are built to respond that way, with our adrenaline with our intentions, with all our focus being there. Well, what happens a lot of times for caregivers and activists is they stay in that heightened state. And they never come down from it until they burn out, or they or they crash and respond. So that taking a deep breath and being able to sort and separate like, is this truly a crisis in this moment? Sometimes the answer may be yes. And you have to respond effectively. But a lot of times, it's not. We've just gotten in that habit of it feeling like a crisis in our bodies. So we respond that way. And we don't we don't do what we need to do. Does that
Paul Zelizer 23:46
make sense? totally makes sense. Okay, so sorting separate, and that's morning and
Christine Gautreaux 23:50
separate. Number two is letting go and surrendering and learning when and how to do this. Here's the thing I know to be true, because I am one and we'll see if you relate to this to Paul, sometimes, as caregivers and activists, we like to control our environments and control things around us. And, you know, no, no way. We do want to like handle it. So being able to really and you know, this is a lot of the principles when you're working in 12 step work and when you're working in other other avenues have really, that it doesn't have to be on all our shoulders, that letting go and surrendering. And so sometimes it's that acknowledgement of I can't do this today, and I need to get support or help. And so call in for support or help or you know, or I can't go to that protest today because my body is not working right. I can let go of that and I can write my representative instead. You know what the The whole part of letting go that it's all on our shoulders, I think is a big a big one. So letting go and surrendering number two that we talked about. Number three is building and using partnership power to get help from others. And you, Paul, are a genius at this at aware printers. I feel like that's what you have built in that community. Like, how do you use partnership power to take care of yourself, right? So it could be a friend, it could be somebody from your faith community, it could be from somebody from New ware printers community, like collaboration. Now, I know that's easy to say, because it is one of my superpowers, and I love to connect and create. But it is, you know, I don't know, I am a firm believer in the African proverb of it takes a village. And so to me number three building and using partnership power is one of my favorite ones for self care, because it's also building community care. Number four is stepping back to see the big picture and the relationship between the parts. So having that eagle eyes view to you know, see the forest for the trees, and really get some perspective. Now sometimes this one can be hard. Sometimes we need help from a coach, or we need help from a therapist or a trusted advisor, that to really step back and get the big picture. And then number five, this is the hardest one for me, Paul, I'll be really honest with you and your listeners. Listen, I think this is the hardest one for anybody that's in the helping profession, or caregivers exercising choice by saying no. And yes. So I'm a huge fan of saying yes. But it's about boundaries, and saying no to things that no longer serve us. So we can say yes to the things that do.
Paul Zelizer 27:03
Well, what a wonderful set of steps, Christine, and yeah, that last one. And every year I pick one book, that's like the book that has the most impact on me. And it's like, it's something I want to like, take with me through time not to read at once, but like, all right, this year, this is the focus. And in 2019 was a book called by centralism by Gregory McEwen. And that last one is very difficult for me. But that book was super helpful, what's essential he, he uses the language essential and non essential, doesn't mean you don't have to do non se. I mean, you can still do non essential things, but it's almost like a meditation practice. Now, I can say, Oh, this is essential, right? You know, families, the central, certain key things in my business are essential exercise, meditation, eating while there are certain essential things, and then something will come along. It's like, Oh, look at this, somebody really needs help. And like I actually could help them here. Or like, you know, here's a potential new client, but is it like, really synced up with the things I've labeled essential? And if the answer is no, the first thing I do is just label it non essential. Just like in a meditation practice, you might say, Oh, that's a feeling. No judge it just like, Oh, that's a feeling that's anger. That's sadness. That's happiness. That's joy. That's confusion or uncertainty, right? Same kind of practice, for me essential, non essential, and my whole life has changed. It's not no longer so hard to say no. Because just like, Oh, well, yes, that's cool. Or Yes, I could help. But you know, I'm need to be more skillful with my intention and my energy. As I get older, it's increasingly important that I pay attention to the essentials. And if something is really essential, I want to do it my care and full attention. And then I'll see what I have leftover. And it turns out, my life is really full, if it's not, oftentimes can't do a whole lot of the other things. And I say no way more easily just saying, Oh, yeah, that's not essential. Do I want to do it? No, I want to go spend time with this loved one, or I want to be in nature. And if I do a non essential, I'm not going to have grace and ease doing the essential things.
Christine Gautreaux 29:17
That is exactly that's it? Well, like that's it is saying no, in order to say yes, and having those boundaries. And I heard you say that's historically been hard for you, me too, like a lot of caring people. It is hard, right? And what I know to be true, especially after the last four years, is that there's always going to be a crisis, there is always going to be something that needs our attention and our world. So I love you having that filter to, to put it in different buckets of essential or non essential. That's, that's really awesome.
Paul Zelizer 29:56
I'll put a link to the book in the show notes.
29:58
Thank you. Yeah.
Paul Zelizer 29:59
So I want to hear about how you work with people and how you, like granular get into helping people make these changes. So we'll do that when we come back. But first, I just want to hear a word from our sponsor. So do you have anything that you'd like to grow in the form of an impact focus business? If you do, you In other words, you want to have more impact and help more people and you want to have a great income. You don't want to be a broke social worker, like when I reinvented myself in the day, I was part of why I burned out. I really want to encourage you to think about podcasting. And let's talk about why for a second. podcast listeners are really special bunch. podcast listeners in general, are really open to and seeking out innovative ideas. They tend to be natural leaders of their, you know, work peers and their family group. people turn to them and say, Well, you know, a lot of things that are really helpful, what do you what do you know about this and they turned to podcasts, to learn more innovative ideas and to find people whose work there's like really growing edge, whatever space, you can think about, there's a podcast, podcast, listeners make more money. Remember what I said, you want to help people have a bigger impact and you want to make a living doing it. podcast listeners self select their people who make more money and, and podcasting, the medium itself is the deep dime medium. podcast episodes on average, are about 43 minutes long. So you have time to go into the nuances and the intersections of what you do in a way that few other modern media allow you. If you'd like to learn about how you can use podcasting to help get your impact business in front of more people attract more clients have more positive impact. Aware printers has a podcast access team will show you whether you want to be a guest like Christina's today, like to be the host of your own podcast, or you want to do both. I personally love doing both. We'll walk you through every step of the way, finding the right podcast, or guests. How do you sound good? And how do you make it effective for the kinds of impact in income goals that you have? You can find out more about the podcast access team at aware of printers.com forward slash dash podcast access. And thank you to everybody in the podcast success team who sponsors this podcast. So Christina, let's talk a little bit. Let's get a little more granular. I think we got a great top level. I love those five steps. And one of the ways you help people is you have a book that has these five steps. Right, right. Tell us about the
Christine Gautreaux 32:36
book. So fun. And it can i Paul, I think we have time to tell the origin story. This book, as you can tell already, I like to tell stories.
Paul Zelizer 32:45
Oh, that's what I just told you. We got 43 minutes. 35 minutes? Yes, go do it.
Christine Gautreaux 32:51
So when I was a baby social worker back in Nacogdoches, Texas, I was in my undergrad and I went to a National Association of Social Workers conference in Houston, Texas. And that was probably about two and a half hours away. And I went to the conference. And you know how some of those professional conferences, some of the breakout rooms are great, and some of them are just completely?
Paul Zelizer 33:16
Not so great. I think I've been to one or two of those. Yeah. Well, let
Christine Gautreaux 33:22
me tell you, I was so lucky, because this was probably one of my first professional conferences ever to attend. Because I was just, you know, baby social worker. And I go, and I went to this breakout session by Dr. Sheila Kay Collins, and she was a professor at the University of Texas at Arlington. So she was about three hours away from home, I was about three hours away from home. And she had written the first edition of stillpoint. And she was upon that she was the front of the room and she was so embodied. She was moving and she was engaging us. And she was you could tell she was fully present with herself and her audience and her material. And she was talking to us about self care. And she was talking to us about the fact that they don't teach us this stuff in school, they just send us out and say go, go go, right, here's
Paul Zelizer 34:18
how you help everybody else. And by right.
Christine Gautreaux 34:24
And oh, by the way, social worker has a lot of different you can do all kinds of different jobs. And you know, people tend to because
Paul Zelizer 34:31
oh yeah, and now that you're graduating, now that you're graduating, you should probably like to carry yourself that's important to buy.
Christine Gautreaux 34:39
So I go to this workshop, and I was so blown away by her. I stood in line to buy her book. Now this was a big deal because I was putting myself through college. And so the price of the book back then was the same price as a week's worth of groceries if I upgraded, right. So I remember consciously making the decision that I was going to eat ramen was probably ramen noodles and tuna fish. That was my diet. And I stood in line. And I, she signed the book. And this was back, I'm dating myself, but this was back before cell phones, this was back before, you know, the internet had really taken off. So I didn't think I'd ever seen her again. I just thought that was nice to meet her. I want to be her when I grow up. And I went my merry way, right? Fast forward, and I devoured the book. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, this is this is magic. It had poetry in it. It had modalities in it, it talked about using your whole self. Fast, I can't even remember this was over 20 years ago, Paul, and I get an invitation to this women's spirituality group, I still didn't even know it was totally spirit. I don't know how I ended up there. And I walk into this retreat. And one of the founding members of this circle was Dr. Sheila Kay Collins, and she's sitting in the circle. And we became retreat buddies and soul sisters, and we have just had a friendship for the last 20 years. So about five years ago, she was working on her second book, will your mother and it's her memoir of losing two of her three adult children, one to a diagnosis of AIDS and one to breast cancer five years apart. And it is a powerful story of how they navigated that journey and how the power of community and ritual and art is how she gets out of bed every day. Right? So I was helping her promote her book. And we are traveling all over the country together. And people would say to me, oh, well, why don't you write in your book? And I say, I don't know, spiritual Tell me because I'm a writer. I'm a poet, I you know, this is one of my one of my mediums. And people say what do you write in your book? Like, I don't know, spirit hasn't told me what I'm writing yet. I'm waiting. I'm listening. And Sheila calls me One morning, and she said, All right. I don't know if it was a dream. I don't know if it was a vision. But I want you to listen to me and don't answer right away. But I think that question that you keep saying about spirit hasn't told you what to do yet, I think spirit told me, because what I want you to do is I want you to rewrite stillpoint and update all the research behind it. Add your voice to it. And let's make it a collaborative project. And let's have a second version of still point. And would you be willing to do that? And I didn't even hesitate a second. I was like, Yes, she's like, I want you to think of
Paul Zelizer 37:41
you obviously don't follow directions, Christine? No.
Christine Gautreaux 37:46
But you know, the thing was, is this was full circle for me, Paul, like this woman changed my life. And and really, I always say the words between her and that circle of women that I've been a part of that for 20 years, that whole thing of I am because you are like I was the baby of that group. Most of those women, their average age is 20 years older than I am. And their mentorship, and their guidance makes me who I am. So that is where the origin story of this book comes from. And I love to tell it because I love to honor my friend and mentor. And before the pandemic, we were traveling all over the country and playing with this book. And because we are both dancing social workers, that we didn't do typical book readings, we would do performance based, interactive, getting folks involved in the book, to really introduce them to the concept of interplay and introduce them to the concepts of self care, while we were there together, and the things that you can do in a minute, to make a difference to start shifting, because it's incremental steps, right? What Wait, one of the things we say in interplay is, you get yourself into trouble in incremental steps. And you can get yourself out of trouble in incremental steps. So just the starting with the one minute things that you can do, and then adding on, especially if you've created a lifestyle that doesn't have room for self care right now. Like, let's get you into that habit.
Paul Zelizer 39:25
You're using the word interplay. And if our listeners aren't familiar, like what is that Christine,
Christine Gautreaux 39:30
help me know what you're talking about. So interplay is a modality that was created over 30 years ago in Oakland, California by two dancing ministers at the time. And what they realized is when they were in church, often their bodies were left out of the equation. And when they were dancing, often their spirit was left out of the equation. So they created this incredible modality that is based on an ethic of play. It is based on body wisdom, it is based on forms that really create a space for you to be able to integrate your whole self. And what it does is it takes back birthright privileges, such as moving, and storytelling and voice that oftentimes gets shut down. As we come up from childhood into adulthood, you know, you start hearing those things of, Oh, don't act that way, or, you know, playing for kids, you know, that shifted a little bit in our culture lately, but still so much like people think when you're an adult, you have to act a certain way, shut all that creativity down. So it is a modality that helps people to access their creativity. And as you know, I know, like when we can access our creativity and being our whole selves, that just helps our productivity, it helps our self care, it helps for me, it helps my whole world. So
Paul Zelizer 41:04
beautiful. I will put a link to both what you do is interplay and also the concern the founders as well.
Christine Gautreaux 41:10
Oh, absolutely. We are a we are a worldwide organization. We have inner players in Australia, in Africa, in India, in New Zealand, I'm probably missing some places we have. It's a social movement. That's what we call it a social movement. Also, in the last, I want to say the last five years, maybe even a little longer. We've been really also dedicated to racial equity and justice and transformation work through using play and interplay to build just communities. Because it's an incredible tool for building community.
Paul Zelizer 41:52
Playing community and justice you that's why we're here. Like, we got all that story.
Christine Gautreaux 42:02
You know, people are awesome. Like, how do you play with racism? Right? That's not a funny topic. No, it's not. It's not and what I'm part of the interplay performance troupe in Atlanta called soul print players. And often our performances are about big topics, right? And, and what we always say is like a traditional improv troupe that goes for the laughs as inner players, we go for the truth. And sometimes it's really, really funny. And sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's not and, but if we can be in community together, if we can tell stories, and just, if not, more importantly, listen to stories, that we can start to have cultural shifts.
Paul Zelizer 42:48
Love that, Christine. So talk to us about some of the other work you mentioned. Dr. Sheila, if I word on the street is right. I think I heard rumors about a podcast and there's
Christine Gautreaux 43:01
so yes, this is oh my gosh, I'm having so much fun with this pot. Oh, Paul, because I am part of your your podcast success team. And I have a new podcast is launching called Women connected in wisdom. And my co podcaster is an amazing woman, Shannon Mitchell, she and I are part of we have a Monday manifesting mastermind group that we have been doing for years together. And she is a young black millennial business owner. And I am a white middle aged business owner. And we have just some of the most fascinating conversations and and we were like other people need to hear these conversations. And so what we decided to do is we launched this podcast that is grounded in the eight dimensions of wellness. Because what we know to be true, is that as as people, as people that are out there advocating for social justice, as people that are holding down households that are caregivers, how do we take care of ourselves? And so we talk about things like occupational wellness and physical wellness, and we talk about social wellness. And we just, every week we have a new guest that comes on and we interview that guest and we have just we're having so much fun. So by the time this goes live, it will be completely launched. We've already we've already recorded three episodes and yeah, we're having a blast with and
Paul Zelizer 44:38
it's so much fun. I'm like Why doesn't anybody why would anybody not want to do this talk to really smart, awesome people.
Christine Gautreaux 44:46
I don't we we recorded last yesterday and we just laughed and laughed. And and yeah, it was it was fantastic. We had interviewed one of the one of the things I do for Community Care is I am the CEO currently serving as the volunteer president of an organization called reforming arts. And reforming arts works with women who are under carceral control in Georgia. And before the pandemic we were going in, and during higher education in prison, unfortunately, we haven't been able to be in in almost a year. And we also have a reentry program that's based in theater arts. And so for helping folks transition and have community when they're coming back from, from being in the prison system. And so yesterday on the podcast, we entered, we interviewed one of the other board members, who is just amazing. And she was, yeah, it's, it's fantastic. Like it is, I don't know, I love it. So that's, that's part of my work this year is uplifting other women. And I like to uplift all people, but really, you know, I am gonna, that's as far as somebody can give me the niche, right? Is the women connected wisdom?
Paul Zelizer 46:09
You also do some coaching program, I
Christine Gautreaux 46:11
do talk. Yeah, I do individual coaching for folks. I had done a radio show recently. And somebody called and said, Hey, I need to know how to do this, like, how do I really, really do this about taking care of myself, and talking about racism and getting out there. And so we really just break it down, like what works in their life and, and, you know, so much of that is personal and individual. And I can talk about it from the perspective of being an activist for years, and what works in my life, but also just working with folks to, to where you're strong, like, what, what are you really great at and what's going to serve and uplift other people? Because so many times like, cuz, like you said, about essential or non essential, right? Sometimes we think, Oh, we got to do it all? Well, that doesn't help everybody if we really stink at it. So, so we kind of we just looked at a plan about what works for people talking about their self care and talking about their community care and how to how to how to look at both and how to hold both at the same time. So we get really personalized and, and get in there and do some exercises and and get in touch with our wholesales.
Paul Zelizer 47:31
Christine, these are really, you know, poignant times, and we've been through a lot. I mean, you live in Georgia. Do you live in Georgia? Thank you. Thank you and everybody in Georgia, the whole world is bowing at your feet right now. Thank you. The whole entire world, like just a big thank you, Georgia. I was like post during the posting john Legend's you know, Georgia, my mind song like over and I was singing out like, thank you, Georgia. Thank you, Georgia. Thank you target. I got
48:04
black women in Georgia.
Christine Gautreaux 48:05
Thank you, Stacey Abrams, and for your fight. Thank you In say thank you. New Georgia project. Thank you women connected black women engaged. Yeah, like there's so many organizations, grassroots organizations here in Georgia, that have been doing this work for years, Paul, and I want to just say a second about that, because I was completely out of balance before this last election, as far as self care, because I was part of the Voter Protection team. And we were training folks on how to, you know, the new voter suppression is endless paperwork, and how if you make one mistake on your paperwork, your vote, especially when you're doing mail and balance, your vote can be cast out, like good example in Georgia was, if you didn't put the date on, it didn't matter. It was the only election in the entire country. If you didn't put the right date on it, your vote could have not counted. And so there were so many activists and there were so many people 1000s I was blown away by 1000s of people doing this work from before the general election after the general election and then for the for the special election for our senators. And it was really in some ways, it was concerned it was it was so enlightening and so amazing and so full of hope for our democracy. And then on the other the other part of me that teaches self care was like, Alright, y'all, we got to get more people and some of y'all sleep. But some people literally worked 50 to 60 hours a
Paul Zelizer 49:47
week was my question and Christine that like you're literally in the epicenter of activism and the whole world is great, Paul, but like, what what did you learn in both personally And I know you're on the ground. And thank you for telling that story because I want our listeners to know Christina is somebody who's like on the ground like working with these incredibly human and doing activism not one of those like, white therapist, people, sorry a therapist, but I'm only therapist so I can say the show. therapist, like you come into my office, you need to sleep more you need to do like, meanwhile tyranny and fascism and white supremacy is like taking over while you're just sitting in your office charging up $150 an hour like, No, that doesn't work for me, right? I know, that doesn't work for you either. What did you learn personally and in community about self care in these really important, really intense where it feels like there's a lot at stake? Because there is time?
Christine Gautreaux 50:44
Right. There's a lot at stake, right? Well, I'm gonna back that question up to Well, now 12 years ago, Holy guacamole, Batman, Time Is Flying. You know, I was on the ground with helping get President Barack Obama elected back in the day. And I, like I think a lot of people did set it down. After we got elected because we were exhausted, right. We've been organizing, we've been getting people to the polls, we set it down. And we didn't pick it back up in a timely manner, as evidenced by the last four years, right. And when, this time, four years ago, I was in Washington, DC. With my two now adult, grown daughters, I was going to go out and protest in Atlanta. And my I think at the time, she was 18. She looked at me and she said, Mom, this is a big deal. We need to go to Washington. And I was like, you're right. And I've never been to Washington to protest. I was raised in Texas. I live in Georgia now. But you know, when I grew up, we only drove you drove you didn't fly, right? So Washington, it was a really long way away. So she was like, we need to get in the car and go and it's like, yes, we need to get in the car and go. So I loaded her best friends in the car. a dear friend of mine, Deb, who's a poet who read poetry to me all the way to DC I'm like, you can be my
52:19
glory. I
Christine Gautreaux 52:21
was like, Come on now. And, and we went and had the most magical experience in Washington, DC that day. And I think that gave us the energy and the community to do the hard work for the last four years. And I ran into people in Washington that were from my hometown, that we hadn't planned to see each other didn't know they were there and just kept running into people in these in this crowd of like, I can't remember the final count, but it was millions of people in Washington, DC that day. And so it was fabulous as far as the community aspect. And what did I learn about this last because worth this, this last one over the holiday season was a doozy. But really that going back to that number five self care skill about choosing and, and, and making choices. So what I I got really specific with my activism this time, because we had people all over this country helping us by text banking. And and I think you were one of them, Paul, by text banking or writing postcards. And I thought, Okay, what can I do? That is community specific, right, going back to placemaking. And this kind of goes into the concept of mutual aid, like in our community, in our local communities. And when I was looking at the voter suppression, and so what all that to just really say what I did is got specific. So I got really clear with what was my skill set? And what would make the most impact, then you'll love this, because this comes from our social worker training, right? Where can I have a macro level impact with what I know how to do. And yes, I can be micro and go knock on the doors, which I do that too. But if I can take my training skill set, which I have been since the whole time we've been on the pandemic, I've been teaching folks how to use zoom, and have a good time. And also I do a lot of my classes and workshops online. And so using that to train people to so what I did for my self care is I just got really specific with myself, where can I have the most impact and be able to handle the amount of hours so towards the last couple of weeks, I was training. I would do two trainings a day volunteer to do that on top of my regular workload that was like alright, that's as much as I can do. Because I was really checking in with myself and being like really one would be ideal, but two is for sure the tops and and it's hard to say no sometimes Right. But the other thing I did was I recruited other people to help me. Because I thought this is not on on my shoulders. So who do I know? That's awesome, that can come in and do this with me. And so that's how I did it, Paul, is is like, I just really got what can I handle? Yes, it's urgent. And I don't have to do it by myself.
Paul Zelizer 55:27
Oh, Christine, I can hang out with you all day. But I can't hang out with you all day because I have a client. My own No, but I just want to say thank you so much. I knew you were literally listeners, self care is one of our core values, that there is a myth sometimes and maybe what the more common or more visible conversations about soft carriers? And how do you sync that up with our equally important core value of diversity, equity and inclusion in which the wellness world is pretty much sucked out historically? Right? So anyway, I just want to make
Christine Gautreaux 56:06
one thing real quick. Yes, please. Cuz I haven't said this. This whole time, I think I buried the lead. But I think Community Care is actually a self care practice. Because if you're anxious, or if you're nervous, or if you don't know what's going to happen, if it's part of my self care, I got more involved. And you have to balance it, of course. But it has been the best thing I've ever done, especially around the last four years because of community and being a part of the solution. So
Paul Zelizer 56:42
Christine, thank you so much for being on the show today.
56:46
Thank you for having me, Paul.
Paul Zelizer 56:49
That's all the time we have for today's episode, listeners. Before we go. Just a quick reminder, we love listener suggested topics and guests. If you have an idea, please go to the aware printers website and on our contact page, it'll give you the three criteria we use to make a decision. For now I just want to say thank you so much for listening. Please take really good care in these intense times. And thank you for all the ways you're having in our world.