189 | Socially Conscious Messages in an Entertaining Way with Tara Pirnia
Our guest this week on the pod is Johnny Crowder. Tara is a film producer and director known for Survive (2020), Eva Longoria Versus (2015) and Christiano Ronaldo: World at his Feet (2014). Her latest film is You Are My Home (Dec 2020) which tells the story of a young girl separated from her mother by ICE agents, who is taken in by a grieving foster parent.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
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Tara Pirnia Awarepreneurs interview
SPEAKERS
Paul Zelizer, Tara Pirnia
Paul Zelizer 00:01
Hi, this is Paul Zelizer, and welcome to another episode of The Awarepreneurs Podcast. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things, conscious business, social impact, and awareness practices. Each episode I do a deep dive interview with a thought leader in this intersection. Someone who has market has that experience, and is already transforming many lives. Before I introduce today's guests in our topic, I have one request. If you could go over to iTunes or whatever app you're listening to the show on, hit the subscribe button and do review. It helps tremendously. Thank you so much. Today, I'm thrilled to introduce you to Tara peonia. And our topic is socially conscious messages in an entertaining way. Tara is a film producer and director known for the movie survive 2020 Eva Longoria vs 2015 and Cristiano Ronaldo world at his feet in 2014. Her latest film is You are my home in December of 2020, which tells the story of a young girl separated from her mother by ICE agents who is taken in by a grieving foster parent. Tara, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? doing? Wow, are so excited to have you here. You've been doing a few things.
Tara Pirnia 01:18
It's been busy. Busy time. Yes.
Paul Zelizer 01:23
Tara, we're called to wear printers. And one of the ways we like to get to know somebody is to ask you about a wellness or an awareness practice that you personally use to help resource yourself for this important work.
Tara Pirnia 01:36
I try once or twice a week just to go on a 30 minute or hour long drive. It's kind of nice to just sit in the car, I feel like I lock away the world. I turn off my phone, I I blast the music up and I just go for a drive. And I just try to decompress. And also some of the more creative ideas come to me at that time. as well. I just think it's important to create a little bit of a bubble for yourself once or twice a week. Nice. I had the opportunity in the honor of working with the creator of MacGyver, actually, and he wrote a book called The MacGyver method. And he is incredibly his name resultaat. And he has written for MacGyver, he wrote for all these incredible shows the movie, oh, gosh, what was the name of the movie anyway, he like one hit after another for decades on end. And and a lot of the research that went into that book was about when we're doing things that allow ourselves like allow our brain to just have a simple focus. And that could be something like play an instrument or going for a drive or the classic one is taking a shower.
Paul Zelizer 02:56
Like all kinds of creative things happen. So anyway, it's how the use that. And so anyway, there's a lot of research for what you're talking about there, I'll put a show up, put a link in the show notes.
Tara Pirnia 03:12
I've heard a famous writer, I don't want to say the wrong name. But I heard that a famous writer does it as well for every one of his scripts, and that he takes a very long drive on Pacific Coast Highway in Los Angeles. And that's where all the ideas for each script every week come from. That's awesome. For me, it's trail running, right? I just think about being in nature and just like something that I'm gonna be out for a while and my whatever works. Your logical brain relaxes and allow you to a different part of your consciousness. It's not a theory, there's literally research. So anyway, I'll put a link to a great practice.
Paul Zelizer 03:49
So Tara, you are from a family that kind of like it would help people to understand your background, right? It's an Iranian American family. And we're gonna talk about why is that important to your work? And what does it have to do with what you're doing now? Just give people a little bit of sense of your background. And and yeah, maybe just to start the conversation is how is your history and where your family comes from and how you grew up relevant to the work that you're passionate about
04:18
now? Well, my parents were educated in the Western world. My father went to Penn State, my mother went to Oxford. So we had a very westernized background growing up in Iran, but I was four years old, my brother was 14, and the revolution broke out. And we left I think about four or five hours before they took the American Embassy. And we flew to America with two suitcases thinking, Oh, this is all gonna blow over in two weeks and we'll be back home. It didn't. And we came to Austin, Texas, and we built a life From Scratch here in the States, in hindsight, my brother and I are incredibly appreciative for the opportunity that our parents gave us to bring us here, because we were Iranian American, we consider ourselves American. But it's been, you know, a times tough the cultural differences between America and our culture. But, you know, we've pretty much acclimated to the American life. And we're incredibly thankful that we have the freedoms that we have in this country.
Paul Zelizer 05:34
And might be totally irrelevant that the movie we're going to talk about called you is a movie about immigration and the complexities that might be helpful for listeners to kind of make that connection. Yes,
Tara Pirnia 05:51
yeah. Well, it's hard as immigrants. I mean, we came here with papers and everything, you know, when we came here, but just coming into a brand new environment that kind of has its own ways of living, was a bit of a shell shock. For my brother and I, we grew up in Iran. So we really, we had a little bit of an accent. So even when I was trying to say the word three came out tree, kids made fun of me a little bit, but you know, you, I thought just for immigrants, and then adding that extra layer of being torn apart by an ice raid, from the only parents you have, when we made the film, I just wanted people to understand what some of these families go through what some people go through, because they were being demonized, you know, by certain individuals. And that's not always the case.
Paul Zelizer 06:56
And we're gonna get into the movie, why you made an impact in just a second, but to help people understand her wine back a little bit like you actually didn't start in the film industry, you Sorry, go back aways as a journalist.
Tara Pirnia 07:12
Well, even before that, I went to the University of Texas at Austin to be a doctor, I was pre med. And I was in my junior year. And that's when you you're starting to prep to take tests, and you're picking out your medical school. And I had a really good friend, Marco, that we spend most of our time talking about business and entertainment and business models within entertainment. And he was shocked to learn that I was actually a pre med major. So without me knowing he sent my resume off to ABC networks. I was shocked when they came back and said they will offer me an internship. And I told my mom and dad that my passion was really for the entertainment industry. And my mom completely supported me helped me move to Los Angeles, my dad didn't speak to me for six months, but eventually came around. And I never looked back. And while in Los Angeles, interning at ABC led to a job at Universal and then Paramount and the journalist thing came up, because I just thought it was fun covering red carpets at that time. And one of the, you know, there's little networks around our country, you know, it's called spectrum news. And Texas is called New York, one in New York, and one of the news directors in Texas got ahold of my tape and said, Would you like to come and launch? It's kind of a CNN sub channel, here in Austin, Texas. And I said, Absolutely, I would love to. So I spent some time as an entertainment journalist. And that allowed me to get an insider's look at film sets that I didn't have before because I was mainly in finance on my first jobs in the industry. And from there, I realized that I journalism was not the path for me that I really wanted to be part of production. I wanted to be part of setting up a film and I also realized how powerful a medium film was. So went back to the drawing board changed my career in 2002 moved back to Los Angeles, and been there ever since. haven't changed.
Paul Zelizer 09:38
What is it about film that is in the stories in film that when it's done, well, that is so impactful?
Tara Pirnia 09:47
Even if it's not done? Well, because I know, you know, I feel sorry for movies that sometimes get bad reviews because it all starts with the best of intentions. And I think what impactful is a film reaches everybody around the world. Everyone has access to it. Everybody can say, oh, I've seen a film. So when you have that kind of tool to reach mass audiences, the kinds of messages you put out there, whether it is a slapstick comedy or an action film, or even a documentary, that's a very powerful tool at your disposal.
Paul Zelizer 10:33
When did you start to? You know, like, if you look at some of your earlier works, he did a piece on Steve Jobs. Cristiano Ronaldo is a very famous soccer player of the day, right? Like, yeah, like they were impactful people. But like, our topic is socially conscious messages in an array somewhere along the way, like you, you move deeper into, like, trying to bring certain point in issues into the conversation, or they were up like immigration, it's just up in the US, right? Yeah. And you weren't exactly movies there. And we've talked and we will talk about some of the movies that you have coming like you went from, like significant people that that were having impact to significant issues. Talk to us a little bit about that journey?
Tara Pirnia 11:21
Well, I actually appreciate those significant people, because every time we did a project, such as Steve Jobs, or Ronaldo, or even the Royals, every one of them hit on a certain issue. And it wasn't until ableman goriias series for ESPN that I was given the chance to really hit an issue. And I realized the impact that one had I received a lot of messages of either Wow, I didn't know this was going on or be, you know, how can we help and I realized, wow, this can make a change. This can really impact society. So that's when I shifted my thought process over to really be thoughtful about the messages you want to put out there. What do you I don't ever want to force a message down anyone's throat, I don't I don't want to say you have to think this way. Or if you don't think this way, you're a bad person. Just I want to plant the seed for you to possibly think about something in our world and an environment that you may not have known and how it's affecting other people, whether or not you want to take action to change it is totally up to you. But just putting something fresh out there for you to see it in a different perspective.
Paul Zelizer 12:43
We were talking before we hit the record button and came up with this title right socially Yes, messages in an entertaining way. And and that was something you're really passionate. Like, you talked about not wanting to hit people over the head with the socially conscious part that you want it to be enjoyable as an entertainment experience. But you also didn't want it to be just light and fluffy. Like how do you get that balance? Right? Or what would you suggest to our listeners, whether they're, you know, making movies or they're writing blog posts, we're all messaging these days social media, right on Instagram are massive. We're all messaging like all the time nowadays. How do you how do you balance that? Where the you're finding ways that the mediums entertainment value? You're you know, why are we on Instagram? Because there's beautiful pics for some of the people on it? Oh my gosh, oh, my god. Yeah. And yeah, the people I tend to follow are like they're doing with a certain intentionality that is connected to their values and their purpose. Yeah. How do you think about that balance of entertainment and socially conscious messaging?
Tara Pirnia 13:50
I think you cannot preach to people. I mean, I understand there are, as you said, Instagram influencers, all of that, that preach all the time. And to me, it feels like I'm seven years old, and my mother is telling me time and time again, why it's important to brush your teeth to almost the point you want to rebel a little bit and go, I'm not going to brush my teeth. I don't do that as an adult.
Tara Pirnia 14:15
But I wanted to think of a way of how do you make something entertaining and yet get the message across. And a lot of times we found out that the best way to do that is is to build it into the story. Make it entertaining, and by entertaining. Just a little bit of humor. Everybody loves to laugh. Everybody likes to watch something touching that touches their heart. And that I found to be the perfect formula to try to get the message across the second you cross over into the territory of saying well if if you do this, you're a horrible person or if you do this you're going to be looked down upon or or even like you're not cool. If you believe this. That's when you're going to start not only losing your honor The answers but also losing the whole reason you did this in the beginning is to try to, you know, do something for a better good.
Paul Zelizer 15:08
So like your latest movie, right? Oh, yeah, you came up with somehow this idea of a young girl separated from her mother by ICE agents talk about politically sensitive topic, right?
Tara Pirnia 15:27
Oh, don’t get started,
Paul Zelizer 15:28
Please get started! I want to hear it right. Who's taking him by a grieving, you know, foster parents and without trying to give away too much. They're from different cultures, like it's very, there's just like a lot going on. They're both in a cultural landscape. But also, in just like the heart landscape of these individuals, these two people plus the humans around them, there's just a lot going on there. How like, was that a story you came up with? Or like, how did you come up with like, I want to make this movie in this timeframe? Which Yeah, just touched on some the Gestalt or the the Zeitgeist of what's happening in the US culture, like, it was pretty amazing about how you how many layers you touched on there?
Tara Pirnia 16:17
Well, it's a funny story, how it came about my producing partner on this film, Andrew Sugarman. He and I had met before, and we always said, we'll work on a project together, we're like, let's make a cute Christmas movie. And he had some scripts come across his desk, and he first sent me the script. And the script had a foster angle, only in it about foster children. And then the 2016 election came and went, and of course, there was a huge highlight on immigration and banning immigrants. And the idea popped into my head of what if we put a message about children being separated from their parents at the Texas border, which was happening every day, and other states as well. And you saw it on CNN, you saw it all over the news, in the middle of a Christmas movie, everybody loves Christmas movies. But I hadn't, I hadn't seen a Christmas movie that also had a message in it. So we completely reworked the script. And we came up with this idea that at times was, as you said, met with a little friction, especially from you know, going to South Texas, it's a bit divided down there regarding this issue, but we then set the sent the script to Alyssa mulatto, and she immediately connected with the story part of it, she had some changes. But she said I would love to be involved. And it kind of just took off from there. And the feedback that we received, you know, initially, when taking it out for the sale was, and this was the pre sale before the movie was shot was, well, you know, we want a straight Christmas movie, we don't want a Christmas baby with a political message we don't want to, and it wasn't really a political message, or a polarizing message Christmas should be Christmas. But, you know, Netflix, bless them, I think had the foresight to see what this really could be. And they immediately they picked it up back in September. And you know, they've really put their full weight behind it. So I appreciate Netflix's out of the box thinking for picking up our project. But we really, for me, personally, watching the footage of kids being separated by also knowing that I was an immigrant kid, when I came to America, adding that extra layer of now you've lost your mother, now you're in a foster care system. Now you're in a home where you're being bounced around. I can't give away more than that. But I just wanted people to watch this and be, you know, maybe given a different storyline given a different way to look at it.
Paul Zelizer 19:16
If you were gonna make some suggestions, I mean, part of the reason we started this podcast is to help people get more skillful at telling impact stories. Yeah, like coming up on 200 episodes of season crowd of entrepreneurs and people who are having positive impact in so many different ways. And one of the three lines is how do we I'm gonna just say be brave, right? How do we be brave but also effective right like have you'll hear us talk about it as increase our impact and our income like we want to make it we want to not nobody's trying to like get private jet plane rich. I mean, podcasts on like that. The other day, they're not that interested in this particular podcast, but like, live a good quality of life and, and have a good impact. That's why people listen. And if somebody is listening, and they're, they're kind of on that edge like they're walking that line Tarah, like, I might be able to play the cards a little safer. And maybe that's a safer bet. As an entrepreneur, whatever my business goals are, and there's another iteration, that's a more courageous and potentially more in the realm of impact, like you took something that wouldn't typically have an impact scenario front and center, like a Christmas movie, and you created the conditions to, you know, a lot of I imagine a lot of conversations came out of this movie, right? A lot of
Tara Pirnia 20:54
it Oh, it did. And I have a lot of friends that, you know, are on different sides of the political spectrum, as I am. And they were watching news, and they already had a set idea in their head of what was going on down at the border. And it wasn't until they watched the film. And they called me one of them called me and said, Is this the truth? Or did you travel at noon dramatize this? Did you fluff it? I go, No, that is the honest truth. And if anything, I didn't really want to put the real, you know, harrowing scenes in the movie there. We what we did with the raid scene that we have in the movie, I think is pretty watered down. But again, it is a Christmas movie, it's a family movie. So it opened their eyes by having a film that is set in the time of Christmas and right smack in the middle of Christmas, where you're busy trying to figure out what, you know, Christmas gift Can I get? How do I get the next PlayStation when it's sold out for my kid, there is something going down, you know, you know, a few 100 miles from your home where there is a child who doesn't even have their parent for Christmas. And why? Because the parent doesn't have paperwork, read, you know, bureaucracy stuff. So that really hit home to them. And then doing it in a way where you're injecting a little bit of humor into the story you're in, you know, just just good, you know, just not being preachy with it. That was our biggest thing, let's not be preachy with this, we're going to stick the event in there, we're going to show the fallout from the event, and then you're left to judge with your own opinion. And that's all we're going to leave it as. So I think that really worked well. In trying to get that message across in a socially conscious movie.
Paul Zelizer 22:46
What would you suggest to somebody who's listening and they're they're walking that line? I could play it a little? Yeah. A little more like, yeah, this probably is, you know, this is what's expected in my niche, right. Like in the in the movie industry. There's a bit of a formula for Christmas movies that are family oriented, and you didn't follow that.
Tara Pirnia 23:08
And no, nor did I want it. You know, we had some reviews that came on to finally someone you know, I love hallmark, I love Hallmark Christmas movies, they're beautiful, they're pretty good production value, well done homework. I just didn't want to do that. And for somebody you know, who's thinking about this? Don't be scared, be brave. Not everyone is going to agree with you. But no, no, not everyone's going to agree with you anyway, you can, you could put out a fantastic film, you know, you could get a huge payday on it. And, you know, be number one at the box office doesn't mean you're going to get all positive reviews. So you can't ever please everybody. So you have to put something out there that is true to your heart, true to what you want people to watch, and possibly take something away from it, whether they're agreeing with you or not agreeing with you. And here's the most important thing, whether they're they agree with you or don't agree with you, they're still talking about it. It's still relevant. So kudos if you can make that happen by
Paul Zelizer 24:15
shaping the conversation either way, and
Tara Pirnia 24:17
either way, at least it's a conversation. At least it's not. And that's we got a bit of that. We know when we first put out the trailer, then we put up the film, and then we had press on it and we had a lot of conversation. But at least it was conversation that hopefully pushes someone to make a change to change things up. So kids are not separated from their parents. So this doesn't happen again to somebody else.
Paul Zelizer 24:47
And totally different scenario, but I just want to close on what you just said. When I was first starting this podcast, you know, almost an hour 5055 minute episodes we've gone over and I have somebody We're having a great conversation. Yeah, hour and 10 hour and 20 episodes. People told me, Paul, you're, you're just not like, nobody has time to listen to an hour long interview, right? And, you know, they're just like, just like, say hi to somebody, get a couple tips, say goodbye and send them to the website. And I'm like, No. Because in my sense of the world, the single most effective thing that moves people in terms of changing significant parts of their lives is dialogue. It's literally the most powerful social change tool on the planet, if it's done well. And I know how to do deep dive dialogue kinds of experiences in 15 or 20 minutes, I dislike. Yeah, sorry, I don't know how to do that. So there are lots of podcasts like that, I'll recommend some for you. But no, I kind of planted my flag in the realm of like, now I really want to unpack people's businesses and why they're doing it and their impact and how it works and get their advice and get the like, real details of just how does this thing work as an enterprise? And like, that's a lot of layers. Right? Right. Thank you for your opinion, and you can start any podcast you want. But here's my goals. And dialogue was one of them. And the kinds of feedback like you said, Sometimes I get pushback, like about episodes, and people have a really hard time about it, but they're still listening, they're still learning and they're, yes, you're facing with the conversations, even if it's like, there was a way it could have been better I made a mistake, or, you know, this particular gas really wasn't a fit for our values. All that's welcome here, thank you, please stay in dialogue with me too. But I just wanted, like, there's a braver iteration of almost every social entrepreneurial venture that I've ever come across. And I hope listeners that you'll find your way into that expression of your venture. Because, you know, the world in a poignant moment, and people who play it safe don't tend to make a dent in the universe a whole lot. So anyway, that soapbox now,
Tara Pirnia 27:07
even an itty bitty dent, you know, like, you know, tiny little dent, or maybe you get somebody to look at a subject a different way, or move, I mean, the biggest one move them to change. That's, that's a huge one, then I consider that a success. That's that's, and for us to see the dialogue online regarding this film. We consider that a success for like, yes, that's what we want it.
Paul Zelizer 27:35
Beautiful. So let's say this, when we come back, I want to hear more about what it takes to make a film like this and some of the other projects you're working on. Okay? Before we do that, I just want to take a break and hear from our sponsor. Do you have a business that is about making positive impact, and you want it to grow, and you want to make a good living doing it? You're just talking about some of that, right? You want to balance your impact and your income? If so, I want to encourage you to think about podcasting. And let me tell you why. podcast listeners are pretty special group of humans. The research tells us that podcast listeners in general, are more open to new ideas, technical languages, we're early adaptors, you'd like innovations, we'd like something that's new, not the tried and true. We're natural leaders. In other words, people in both our personal networks, friends or families, professional networks, they look to us for new ideas and suggestions and innovations. We have higher levels of leadership in our careers, and podcast listeners make more money. That's a pretty unique combination. And it's not like any other medium that I know of out there. Also, the average podcast episode is about 43 minutes long. So you have time to get into the nuances and the various ways different parts of your work intersect to create the unique kinds of impact and effectiveness and what you're doing. So think about that for a minute and think about I know who you are listeners you're doing out of the box stuff, you want to move the needle in terms of positive impact, you want to have a successful business, pretty unique opportunity to do so. Whether you want to be a guest like terrorist being today, or you want to start your own podcast and be a host, or you want to do both. It's a really incredible opportunity. If you could use some help about learning how to do that effectively both to have more impact and increase your income aware printers has a podcast access team where we'll walk you through every step of the way teach you what you need to know, to do it effectively to sound good to find great podcast to be guests on if that's your strategy. It's called the podcast success team. And if you'd like to find out more, you can go to a where printers.com forward slash podcast dash Success. And I want to thank everybody in the podcast success team and help sponsor this podcast. So Tara, talk to us a little bit. I know we have some listeners who have already made some great films, we did an episode with Adriana, who did a film about it's called The Creative High, and it's a documentary about addiction, and creativity. And artists in recovery, might be really cool to get the two of you connected,
Tara Pirnia 30:29
I would love to see that actually.
Paul Zelizer 30:32
So I'm gonna put a link to adrianas episode here on the show notes. So we certainly have some wonderful folks who've already made films, like Adrian in our community, and I know that a bunch of our listeners are more like, Oh, I really have this documentary, it was like in my belly, but that's like, kind of out of what's traditionally been my warehouse wheelhouse. So if somebody's listening, and they're like, they have a story they want to tell through the medium of film. But that's not something they've done a lot of give us a little bit like, how does one make socially conscious movies, maybe at different levels of scale? But what are some of the options out there? And like, what does it take to do it successfully?
Tara Pirnia 31:12
Well, you know, first of all, if there's two different kinds, there's the feature narrative, which is the last film we made, and then there's a documentary style, regarding documentary style, just go out there and do it, just get it started you with technology today of iPhones and everything, you know, don't consider it a daunting aspect to go out there and just shoot interview, put the idea together, even if it's maybe a short, my my film with Eva Longoria was eight minutes long. And she and I were saying I wish we had 45 minutes, you know, the format was eight minutes, and that eight minute short bait a huge impact. So don't don't sit there and think well, I need multiple crews, I need this kind of camera, I need this note, all you need is the story and then just go and shoot it. And when you shoot the first one, you edit the first one, you're it'll just build out from there. A feature narrative is all about the script. So I would say start with writing the story out on an outline. And from there, run it by a couple of friends, see what their feedback is on it. And then you take it to the script stage. And from there, a lot of people have started with this is my story in a 90 minute format, but I may pick 10 to 15 minutes of it and make a short out of it. Just to get the story and the film out there to eyes that want to see it. And again, I wouldn't get caught up in Do I need millions of dollars to make a movie independence are very strong right now content is is king right now. And I think it'll probably stay that way for a couple of years because of the slow downs with COVID last year. So the best advice I can give to any filmmaker, documentary or feature is don't be scared. And just write it down. And if anything, shoot a little bit on it, use your iPhone, use your Samsung, you don't want to plug any particular you know, device but just shoot a little bit. It's okay. Don't be scared.
Paul Zelizer 33:35
And at the scale, you're making movies now, like give us how many people are involved? And how kind of budgets are we talking now?
Tara Pirnia 33:48
You know, our last one was micro micro budget. That was all I think it was really about the message that was I mean to grab Alyssa Milano and Christiana dela Fuente, I had an A list dream cast behind that film. That one I think lightning just struck. But for example, our next one where we're tackling another socially conscious issue, it goes up a little bit this script, so it's all about the script. You know, you're my home was simple, in a way we had a few locations. We didn't have a huge crew. The next one requires more locations, more shooting days. So that that is what kind of drives your budget. But it's amazing to look back and see. You know, I started with documentaries that I mean, we're Penny's budget, and now come up to, you know, feature level budgets. So it does progress naturally. As you go through, you know, all the machinations of making a film project in any genre
Paul Zelizer 34:58
along the way, or did you have Moment like, was it always clear like, this is gonna work? Or did you have like doubts? Like, I'm gonna try those?
35:07
Are you kidding? I wake up every morning?
Paul Zelizer 35:13
Eating
Tara Pirnia 35:16
10 seconds every morning, I'm like, do I really want to do this today? No, I love here's the thing, you really have to love this business, everybody asked me for advice. And the number one thing is, are you ready for a business where you do not have job security, where you don't know what each day is going to take you and I don't care how, how amazing of a planner you are and organizer you are, you are going to be on set one day, and it's there's going to be issues, there's going to be problems on the last film, one day it was 100 degrees. And air conditioning was not working in our trailers. The very next day, eight hours later, it was 30 degrees and the heaters when in turn. Oh, yeah, you cannot, you know, you just cannot I mean, you can predict the weather but either to a certain extent. But you know, you're gonna have problems. So if this if you want to be creative, if you want to be a problem solver, this is the business for you do not get into this business thinking I'm going to make, as you said earlier, private jet cash, like that, don't go into this business with that mindset, it won't work, go into this bit might go into this business with a mindset. I love being creative. I love working with a great team of people. And I love problem solving, because those are the cornerstone of the entertainment industry. And I've learned that for the last X amount of year. It's been many, many years. So
Paul Zelizer 36:47
how much of your role now with more people in it more dollar cetera, how much of your role now is like technical, and how much of it is we could call it emotional intelligence, or, you know, like helping good people find the way to work together to bring about the outcomes that you're looking for,
Tara Pirnia 37:08
you know, what I'm asking today? Yeah, it's all of it. It's, it's, it's, it's, you know, whether you're the producer or the director, you have to be good with people. directors are sometimes you know, a little bit lost in their creative world, especially when they're on set. And that is where you want them to be. You want them to be Uber creative, and, you know, put their vision out there. But you still have to be diplomatic, you still have to have a certain emotional sensitivity, because you are working with big teams of people behind the big team of people, that is your crew, you have the investors or the studio, that are entrusting you with their finances their money to put out a good product. So in that, in that sense, it's like any other business, but then you're adding the emotional quotient and creative cushion on top of it, where people become very sensitive about their creative ideas, the emotion that goes behind that. So it's almost a way I would have to say my job is also very much based in diplomacy, as much as is based on Well, what are the sales numbers going to be what's going to move the sale needle, you know, what's going to be the message behind this, all of it plays together, and you have to each project comes, it's almost like you have to come up with a perfect equation for each project.
Paul Zelizer 38:32
It's almost like I would say not not that I know anything about the film industry. And I'm so grateful you're here. But I would say like as I've grown as a social entrepreneur, one of the things I didn't understand is how much it's about leadership and emotionally intelligent leadership. And and you know, that skill emotionally? Yes. Right. It's all about and the more you know, where printers has a community now of almost 300 people all over the world, different cultures, each one working on really important issues. But, you know, somebody might know a lot about, you know, working around immigration or working around diversity, equity inclusion. You know, the episode I'm working on right now is this fabulous young man Trix Kirkpatrick. It's called his company as a social enterprise called a move to remember. And it's particularly about what they're known for is helping LGBTQ plus folks who are in moments of crisis, like they got kicked out by a landlord or they're going through a breakup or something, you know, somebody had bedbug, like really complicated, traumatic stuff, and you had to move and that's, ya know, and they're just so there. It's like a trauma informed moving company for LGBTQ issues. Right. And it's so cool. I love tricks. I can't wait and a very cool, right, that's really good. But like, we're coming in like you're like stepping in. Okay, I'm gonna do a movie. It's a Christmas movie, and we're gonna put immigration. Right. And by
Tara Pirnia 40:15
we just say we have a Christmas movie. And there it is. You know, Netflix loved it. I mean, they were just like, we get it. Well done. good addition. And, you know, I'm not trying to take credit for this, but it was my idea. And at first, even when I pitched the idea to my producing partner, and my writers, Marian Milner at first they were like, Okay. Oh, God
Tara Pirnia 40:44
That's good. Sounds like no, no, but hear me out. This is how it's gonna seamlessly weave through, you know, the story that we're doing. And it played? Well, I mean, Marian came up with a brilliant angle of her falling into the foster system, because that's what happens with these kids, you know, they get torn apart during an ice raid, because the child is an American citizen, because she was born here. The mother is not the parents are not. And they fall into the foster system, which is just as crazy as the immigration system. So Mary's and I were able to combine those ideas together to come out with the script the way that it did. So. Yeah, you know, it just you just got to go meet someone is going to connect with this idea. And other as we were discussing before, some people are gonna like it, some people are not, it's just the way life is.
Paul Zelizer 41:39
Absolutely, absolutely. How do you think about impact? Like, you're, you're pretty consciously planted your flag more in, you know, when we were talking before we hit the record button. This was about immigration, there's something on the, you know, horizon about homelessness, and another one about, right, yeah, yeah, you're kind of pretty firmly planting your flag in socially conscious movies. Like, you know, in some, you know, as a podcaster, I get metrics about how many people listen to the podcast, and I, you know, how many people join a community or, you know, tricks, how many people they moved, and what kind of feedback they're getting from people in difficult situations, who are so grateful to have a trauma informed, LGBT, LGBTQ, you know, friendly, moving company, they're just blown away. And
Tara Pirnia 42:38
I just love that idea.
Paul Zelizer 42:40
I'm so excited.
42:42
My little brain is going right now, just right.
Paul Zelizer 42:45
If you if you want an introduction, let me know. I can't imagine.
Tara Pirnia 42:49
I would. Totally great idea. I really needed idea. Oh, yeah. Especially in time of COVID. You know,
Paul Zelizer 42:58
yeah, yes. I told them, you know, get ready. As you start telling that story. They're in Chicago, get ready for people who are outside of Chicago to get interested in what you're doing. So anyway. So, you know, in some instances, it's really clear, we moved this many people, right. And we have this many doubt, like, how do you think about impact in the realm of movies, when you know, it's like this one, it's a Christmas movie, it could just be a family, like, Oh, so sweet. And then like, next thing like, how do you think about? How do you personally kind of feel into? Are you having the impact that you want to have with what you're doing? Is it an intuitive thing? Is that the emails you get? Are there metrics you're tracking? Yeah. How does that work?
Tara Pirnia 43:50
I think it's a it's a mix of intuitive and feedback. I've, I've a very vast variety of friends. And some may, you know, when we first started, you are my help, some connected and some didn't. And then at the it's funny, at the end of the day, when the movie was released, the ones that didn't connect, watch the movie and connected. So I think, I don't ever want to say to a filmmaker. You know, don't don't use your own intuition. Always go on what everyone else is saying. Because it's wrong. You know, there's a reason why you have that creative idea. There's a reason why you have that intuition. And you should, if you're passionate about it, follow it. Because there's a reason it's there. But also, when you have an idea, be a be a bit open to what other people are saying as well because of one simple fact. They may see something you don't. And that's just, you know, common sense. And a lot of times during this last movie and the other two movies that we're prepping right now. There's been A lot of outside opinions, a lot of very good outside opinions that are like, Well, I know you wrote it this way. Well, what if we did it that way. And sometimes that way is a better idea than you may have thought of, even to begin with. I credit Alyssa Milano a lot and elephant a crescendo find a lot because they were incredibly active in the creative process of our last film, and some of their ideas were fantastic. So you never want to close it off to people that are giving you ideas.
Tara Pirnia 45:31
Yeah, so the movies or even the little girl in our movie, she was brilliant. Even even a vibrant 11 year old ideas.
Paul Zelizer 45:38
Yeah. And movies. It's still live on Netflix. Right? People can go on Yes,
Tara Pirnia 45:43
yes. Oh, yeah. they've they've got it for a while.
Paul Zelizer 45:46
I thought so. But I didn't want to get false information. So we'll put
Tara Pirnia 45:49
away for a while and they may be expanding I you know, we don't know. It is a worldwide Yeah, this immigration is a worldwide concept. You know, so it plays to a lot of territory. Yeah.
Paul Zelizer 46:00
So we'll put a link in the show notes. But basically listeners just go to Netflix and type in You are my own and go watch that. Yeah, go watch it. It's a it's a really, really powerful conversation starter. So yeah, maybe consider watching it with some of the people you love. So I kind of hinted out and you kind of hinted at Terry, you got some other projects on the horizon? Wait, anything more you can say about those
Tara Pirnia 46:28
others and then we're shooting in 2020? Well, we're we're getting on to other socially conscious movies in two different projects. One is, as you said, homelessness, which in my city. Austin, Texas is a very hot topic right now, it is something very close to my heart. Because my belief is that we're all maybe one bad decision, one trauma, one global pandemic, I never thought that would come into it, but away from literally losing our homes, and what would happen if that happened to you, no matter how successful you are. And that's the basis for our movie, coincidentally implanted in the middle of a romantic comedy. So we're starting, we're still using that formula of take a take a common genre and put a socially conscious message smack in the middle of it. And the same one for the next one falling behind that one, which is a bit of a dramedy, but it really touches on some some issues that are going on in our country right now. And that's the 2021 slate for now.
Paul Zelizer 47:43
Christmas movie with ice and romantic comedy and homeless says, All right. Okay, we're getting the vibe here. Yeah, that
Tara Pirnia 47:57
was pretty unique to that one. Yes, that one hits on or that one hits on our health care system. And you know, how hard it is for individuals to have health care and how it affects your entire family when someone is not, you know, able to, you know, have the general help that they need show. Yeah,
Paul Zelizer 48:14
Cool. Just put up for our listeners, but also maybe for your target that we interview, the fabulous man who has a podcast. And Dr. Henderson has a podcast called we the unhoused. And he is unhoused. He's been on house since 2008 2009. When he has some health problems, and he's black teacher who Yeah, had help from Laos and LA. And yeah, it's been on house for 10 or 12 years now and kind of got a little more stabilized and started a podcast and it's Yeah, it's getting traction. He has like hundreds and hundreds of Patreon that his life is stabilizing. And people are like, going in from other city. That's when I said to trick you know, if you tell the story, people you're gonna be like to write. So anyway, go check out the unhoused and what they're doing.
Tara Pirnia 49:03
I definitely will. I think there's a bad just like, parts of immigration, there's a bad stigma on homelessness and the way you think about the homeless, like, Oh, well, you know, they just don't want to work or, you know, it's, for some reason they want to be there. That's that's not the case at all. A lot of you. You know, I learned years ago, when I did my first tape for for you know, you know, CNN, I went downtown along with a couple of, you know, football player friends at midnight, and, you know, wanted to interview the homeless and the people I found one young girl was escaping abuse from her family. Another guy really wanted to work but because he didn't have an address, couldn't get a stable job. So when you put this out there you realize there's more to This homelessness problem than just, you know, someone being lazy, you know, which is the common stigma I always get I'm like, oh, that back happy possible back, you know? Yeah,
Paul Zelizer 50:12
a huge percentage I used to do community mental health and a huge social work. A huge percentage of young people under the age of 25, who are unhoused are unhoused, primarily because they're LGBTQ, and nobody in their network can deal with it. And exactly bounce out of homes that, yes, have certain beliefs that don't allow them to accept them and kind of trend to that transition. Yeah, the young people are in the midst of and you know, just to kind of try to stay alive, they run away, and they wind up on the streets.
Tara Pirnia 50:45
Yeah. And, you know, there's also a lot of, you know, individuals that have serious mental health issues. And, you know, I think what we want to put out with this movie is that we need to help these people, we need to be there for these people, we also need to get to the root of the problem of what put them there in the first place, and fix that problem. Not just treat them as outcasts or say, Well, you know, there's one thing going on in our city right now, you know, there's like little tent cities, oh, well, we just want the 10 cities out of here, because they just make the landscape look that No, these are human beings. You know, these are human beings that really need our help. And I think as a society, it's part of humanity to help someone that is in need.
Tara Pirnia 51:33
Yeah,
Paul Zelizer 51:33
totally agree. Yeah. Sit there, I can hang out with you all day. That too, and I wouldn't do that to our listeners, if there was, as we're winding down is there if there was something you were hoping we were getting to get to, in this interview that we haven't touched on, or there's something besides listeners, go watch the movie link in the show notes, or just go to Netflix? Write something you would leave for audience that we haven't yet touched on or something you want to kind of just leave them with a reminder, a resource, something to help make their journey as impact oriented entrepreneurs a little smoother, and move the needle a little bit more in that direction? What would that be?
Tara Pirnia 52:16
For socially conscious filmmakers, I would say, don't be scared, and follow what you're passionate about. Go out there and just get the process started. And continue with your passion and what your gut instinct is telling you to do. And as far as our messages go, or film goes, yes, I would love for you to watch it, but also have a healthy discussion about it. Try to keep an open mind about it. And maybe you learned something you didn't know. And maybe it evokes change, maybe it doesn't. But at least keep an open mind. And just be kind to one another. That's the most important thing that we're trying to get out in all of these films and a lot of other filmmakers are trying to do is just be kind to one another.
Paul Zelizer 53:01
Thank you so much for being on the show today.
Tara Pirnia 53:04
Thank you, Paul, for having me. This has been a blast.
Paul Zelizer 53:07
So we'll put a link to the film and all the resources you touched on. Thank you so much, listeners. Before we go. I just want to invite our listeners we'd love listeners suggested topics and guests. So if you have an idea, you think somebody would be fabulous guest for the podcast, go to the web printers website. And on our contact page, it gives you kind of the three criteria that we're looking at who you know how, basically just like, here's transparency, this is how we decide. If you think somebody be a great guest, go take a look. And then if it feels like a fit, fill out the form and hit send. So for now, I just want to say thank you so much for listening, please. It's really intense out there right now take really good care. And thank you for all the