187 | The Values Compass with Dr. Mandeep Rai
Our guest this week on the pod is Dr. Mandeep Rai. Mandeep is the auther of The Values Compass: What 101 Countries Teach Us About Purpose, Life & Leadership. She is a global authority on values, working with companies, institutions and individuals around the world. She has traveled to more than 150 countries and reported for the BBC World Service, Reuters, and many others.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
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Mandeep Rai Awarepreneurs Interview
SPEAKERS
Paul Zelizer, Mandeep Rai
Paul Zelizer 00:02
Hi, this is Paul Zelizer, and welcome to another episode of The Awarepreneurs Podcast. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things, conscious business, social impact, and awareness practices. Each episode, I do a deep dive interview with a thought leader in this intersection. Someone who has market tested experience and is already transforming many lives. Before I introduce today's guests and our topic, I have one request. If you could go over to iTunes, or whatever app you're listening to, and do a rating and a review. It helps tremendously. Thank you so much. Today, I'm thrilled to introduce you to Dr. Mandeep Rai. And our topic is the values compass. Mandeep is the author of the best selling book, The Values Compass: What 101 Countries Teach Us About Purpose, Life and Leadership. She's a global authority on values, working with companies, institutions, and individuals around the world. She has traveled to more than 150 countries, and reported for BBC World Service, Reuters, and many others, minty, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Thank you. thrilled to have you here. And boy, when I was like, getting ready for this interview, I'm like, Wow, she's done a lot of things. And we're gonna get into some of those things and written an awesome book. Before we do that. We're called to Awarepreneurs. And one of the ways we like to get to know somebody is to ask you about a wellness or an awareness practice that you personally use to help you bring your most resilient self to this really important, but not always easy work.
Mandeep Rai 01:39
I love this opening question. And I love what you stand for. I love the fact that this is a focus on awareness. And I also love this intersection. So I hope that we can both delve into this together. So that the reader is really or the listener is left truly inspired, because I'm already inspired by the awareness and the, I guess the intention that you've set right here right now. So one practice, and what the meet the the practice that I have, right before I even open my eyes. It's a practice of meditation and gratitude. So one of the things that have transformed my life, to be a practice of gratitude for three things, as soon as I wake up, and just as I'm falling asleep, and I have found that that actually changes the quality of my sleep. I wouldn't say the quality of my dreams, but actually, my sleep has improved to the point that I actually don't remember my dreams, unless I'm woken up halfway through. But I do feel more, more upbeat, more resilient. And I feel that that theme of gratitude then carries me throughout the day. So for example, the first thing I can immediately be grateful for without even having to put thought into it would be my bed, the fact that I've woken up in a warm bed, within a warm house. And lying under d vaes. My head is upon a cushion, or a pillow upon a soft pillow. I mean, these are all luxuries that I've been blessed with. And I haven't even yet opened my eyes. And then I immediately feel I did this. And we can go into this a bit later. But I think there was a period of my life that I was really sick. And what healed me from that sickness was a practice called the body scan. So I mentally would do a kind of a mini body scan in this crush to practice as in, I will be grateful like wiggle my toes and be grateful for my feet, my feet that willing to carry my weight, lift me up, like hold me from the moment I get up. And also a slight kind of grounding practice of visualizing those feet, then grinding and embedding themselves into mother into the soil and deeper and deeper and deeper still. And these few little things immediately have me connected to nature. have me connected to breath, have me connected to the earth. And the capacity of nature Breath of Fire the elements. It's just infinite. And so this is kind of this expanse and depth of wellness, that I wouldn't be able to reach through just kind of logical, reasonable thoughts. First thing in the morning, the one practice They do not have. And when they, when they did, it really wasn't good for me was to reach for my phone, not to reach out for my phone even to tell the time or to anything like just do. I don't touch my phone as, as a matter of course, right at the beginning of the day.
Paul Zelizer 05:18
We'll put a link to gratitude research and the body scan. And some listeners might know this, but I was blessed to go to graduate school in Boston. I'm gonna date myself here. I started in 1989. And it was that an awareness piece counseling program, a master's in community mental health or mental health. At Lesley University in Boston, we were 12 miles down the road from Jon Kabat Zinn. And many of my teachers were his early many my professors were his earliest students, and I was like swimming and graduate school and psycho neuro immunology. All this stuff, right. And the body scan like that takes me back to me, ti 89. So anyway, fabulous practice lots of research. And we'll put a link to that right there in the show notes.
Mandeep Rai 06:08
Yeah, and then there are so many other things, right, like the body scan has been, you know, it's an ancient old practice, even if we think about, for example, the practice of yoga nidra, if you didn't have a good night's sleep, to be able to almost have a restorative, meditative listening practice for half an hour, which is the body scanning, but in a different level. And it's a different level of relaxation. I found that if I haven't slept well, I can restore my mind and body through yoga, nidra through half hour Yoga nidra session. You don't you don't need anyone or anything to do it, you just all you need to know what your yoga nidra consists of, or to listen to what Yoga nidra for half an hour. It's just amazing. It was life changing. Because when you know as well as I do, when you don't have sleep, it's one of the main ingredients for the well, the lack of it is one of the main ingredients for torture. Everything else can so go out of work, the way you eat your metabolism, the way you concentrate, your skin, your hair, everything, everything that's affected. If there's not enough sleep,
Paul Zelizer 07:22
Just ask any parent that has little ones right.
Mandeep Rai 07:26
That's where I learned it. And I so loved that you took us back to Boston, Boston is like one of my Happy Places.
Paul Zelizer 07:36
I love Boston. Goodness, I love London too. So anyway, you had this like, super interesting career. And as I start to, as we start to unpack it listeners, like there's been a banking phase he worked for the United Nations. He set up a media VC fund for the United Arab Emirates, you wrote this book, you're a journalist, and you've traveled all over the world, like, are you 97 years old? this intersection of like, thinking about values in business and organizatios and what's happening in the world and like, wind us back? Where did some of that thread, let's call it you know, your book is called the values compass. And you've done a lot of things, but all of them somehow seem to have this theme that values needs to be front and center in the particular domain that you're paying attention to in this moment, is that fair to say?
Mandeep Rai 08:34
That, yes, that if I were to bring you into the present, into now into you sitting here, or wherever you are, you're walking, you're sitting, you're driving, you're listening to this podcast, and you've made a deliberate choice, to choose this podcast. At this time in your life, that choice has come out of what you are deciding you value. You've put your precious time you're an hour of your day, from your week, from your year into this, and you've decided that it decided it for wellbeing reasons, or you decided because you want to increase your awareness or your conscious level, or you've decided for career reasons. Or you've decided for growth, or learning or to be a better parent or whatever that reason is, is based on what you have decided is important for you. And that's your value. Those are your values that are speaking out. So each and every decision we're making all of the time, subconsciously or consciously or based on our values. And yet it's a conversation we very rarely have with ourselves. Very rarely do we think, what is it that's important to me in this period of my life and more importantly giving you Good time in this space to think, which balance of things are important to me? And how would I wait to them. Because if they're all equally important, it will be very difficult for me to make decisions, because I'll be pulled in one direction or another. So in order to create some kind of harmony, you meet you, the practice, or the kind of process they take you through, is to prioritize them. Now, that's a very big, big kind of answer right from the get go.
Paul Zelizer 10:37
And we're gonna unpack like some of the ways you actually help people get granular with it, but give us an example from your journey Mandeep, one of these transitions from banking to the UN, or from UN to setting up a media VC fund or into journalism, like give us How did values factor into one or two of those transitions that you personally made?
Mandeep Rai 11:00
Okay, thank you for allowing me to share a story with you. Um, in 911, this was probably a moment that, you know, there are pivotal moments in everyone's memory and history. You know, for anyone British, they'll might know, where they were the moment that Princess Diana died. Or, for anyone who's a Michael Jackson fan, they'll remember when they heard that news, I think a lot of us will remember where we were when we heard about the 911 attacks. And I was actually sitting in a news room in the UN building, when those aeroplanes went into the Twin Towers. And when that happened, I remember really kind of bracing myself for what I thought would be a very different story to what we then ended up covering. And what we ended up covering was like, a day after day after day of a backlash of like, anger towards the Muslim community around the world, but especially with the US and I am a Sikh. So Sikhs were generally Sikh men wear turbans, and they have beards, as in one of the five main principles of sickie is not to cut your hair. And therefore, although both men and women can keep their hair in a turban, it tends to be more men who keep their hair in a turban, a woman might, you know, have their hair in a braid, or a band, or, or whatever. And so a lot of my Sikh brothers were actually being physically attacked in the US at that time. And so, and been known to me when the attacks happened, for the next week, two weeks, three weeks fully, like I began to have, I began to cover all these attacks that were taking place. And one of the other key sequence calls is to stand up for what you believe is right, or even more importantly, stand up when injustice is taking place. And so, at the time, it Park, like there was a, there was almost a backlash towards a community, or maybe the Muslim community, the Islamic community around the world, who are now synonymous to or defined by or referred to, with the same brothers as terrorism, like you heard of terrorist attacks. And then you heard about, you know, different parts and segments of this community. So while that was all happening, the one of the responses the Middle East had was to say, how can we make sure that people really know who we are, because whereas there might be one or two, or however many fanatical people, there is also a whole continent of incredible people. And here, we are consuming Hollywood and Bollywood? Where are our stories? Where is our, you know, where are our, with our literature, our songs, our films? What are our what's the narrative that our children are growing up with? And what is the narrative that the rest of the world knows about us? And how can we make sure that if it doesn't exist, that it will exist in the future? And so for me when I was asked to set up this venture capital fund, which would be the first media venture capital fund of the region, and it felt like, I couldn't turn away from that, and it was a chance to stand for a community that was at the time being oppressed and attacked, and and to some degree, I still I still see that at play today. You And this, this was begun by an organization called to 454, which was being set up at the time. They are the coordinates of Abu Dhabi, as in the latitude and longitude. And to 454 is like a media center, essentially based in Abu Dhabi. And they had decided to create different vehicles in which to hope is a letter of media that would, that would come out of the Middle East and North Africa. And so it was my job to look at. What do we invest in? What kind of media, you know, what can we do? Is there how can we encourage this? How can we encourage the latest? What what theme park should we build? What books would it be invested in what, you know, what films we create? And so, yes, it was 100% my values that led me to not being able to turn that down.
Paul Zelizer 16:05
I know, I am Jewish, where are they progressive activists, Jews in my family and our language. And this is one of my core values, we call it tikkun - to work towards repair of the world. The closest English approximation would be social justice. But it's it's got a whole spiritual concept that like literally gets wired in if you're from the kind of tradition of Judaism and process like wired into every cell, and Paul Zelizer is big. And it's in a where printers and it's in my personal life, and it's in like, who I choose for my one on one code. That's one of my values when I started dating my current girlfriend. So there's three things you need to know. And they were all my values. And it was awesome. It was the best data experience I've ever had, because I put my values first. I never did that. Before
Mandeep Rai 16:59
that he shared with us, what are your top three values? Because that is perfect.
Paul Zelizer 17:07
Number one was tikkun. right? The second one was adventure. Like we got it, life is short, if we're not having some fun here, what do we like? What are we doing, right? I'm a trail runner to backpacker. But I also love to try like I don't I'm not attached to what kind of adventure. But if we're not having adventures in this relationship, I'm in the wrong relationship. And the last one was mutuality. Because I've had a lot of experience. I'm a giver, and my daughter, and I call it Jewish Papa syndrome. Like, I just want to feed somebody and rub your feet and all this stuff, right? I do it. I don't. It's a different quality of work. But I give a lot. And I'm not going to stop that that's just part of who I am. It doesn't have to be like a transactional exchange, I gave one. So I need to get one. But a lot of my history is giving and not you know, over an imbalance there. And I was like, No, I'm like, I'm in my 50s. Now I've learned a thing or two, somebody's like, isn't down for like really giving and sharing, then I'm in the wrong relationship. And those three, and this is the best dating experience I've ever had not by little by orders of magnitude it was because very early on. I said, here's what you need to know about me. And if that doesn't work for you just like, let's talk, you know, let's just go our separate ways, or let's be nice, but this is not a relationship if these three things don't fit. And she said, Oh my god, where have you been? Right?
Mandeep Rai 18:36
And you know, what's brilliant is that it gave her permission to say yea or nay. And this is what's important to me. Because as soon as you have that value based conversation, the other person can say their values to or reflect on what really matters to them too. And it is so liberating. Because you're having your needs met, you put your needs right there at the forefront, and they're not even meet your needs. It's just who you are. It's just what you stand for.
Paul Zelizer 19:03
We're not here to talk about Paul's dating life. But since we're on this, I’d like to tell one more story earlier on before I met my current partner, I had dated somebody we literally went on two dates. And she was talking about her and her children going to fairly conservative Christian churches. And I you know, we live in the same community. She talked about dropping her kid off at a band thing here. And and I said to her, you know, I think it was after our second or third date. I said, you know, I've enjoyed our time together but I'm concerned you know, and I brought up the question of values like I'm this progressive Jew and to Kuhn is one of my like core values, and and you're bringing your kid to an it's not necessarily the tradition that we're not the same tradition, but this is a very conservative and I'm like so I'm so far in the direction of progressive like, talk to me how you might think this could work or Do we need to like say this isn't a fit? She got highly offended, and said, How dare you make assumptions. And I just said, I'm noticing and talk to me freaked out. And I said, goodbye, right? To dates you were done. And like, let's save everybody's time here. So yeah, that's an experience of how it can either pretty quickly, and I'm telling stories from my dating life, but I'm going to have a hunch, you're gonna say, Mandy, it can work that way in business to him, is that fair to say?
Mandeep Rai 20:30
Yes, the only thing you need immediate reflection I would have is that I can see how you can say what your values are right? That you put those three values right upfront and said, this is what's worth, this is who I am. But where where she might have become, might have been offended was the fact that you might have said, words, I'm sure you didn't say words like conservative, you're that's just how you're describing the story to us. But we don't want to tell another person what we think their values are, because they're so personal. And even, let's say you're talking to your best friend, and your best friend says to you, wow, this is really what I'm gunning for, like, these are my aspirational values. But I'm not there yet. And you could say, truthfully, yeah, you're right, because you spend your time in such and such way, which shows that these aren't your values, or they're not your values yet, or, you know, you're that we're working towards them, dude, or whatever you call them. But we're not, we're not there yet. So you can say that, but even if I said it to my partner, this is what I think you value, immediately, he would be offended by that, because it's as if I'm saying to them, that I, that I, it's like boxing someone you can you can tell, you can say it, that I am this type of a progressive Jew, or I adventure matters to me, and this is how I define adventure. But I bet your bottom dollar that if someone else were to say it to you, you would say, wait a minute, let me let me talk about
Paul Zelizer 22:17
with her with her with you mentioned such and such a church, right and like be the same community and just the name of the church, you're dropping your kids off here, and I'm not sure how that fits with what my values are, here's something to know. And she got really offended. So like, we're done, there was nothing else to explore, in my opinion. Right?
Mandeep Rai 22:40
Right. And I guess all I'm trying to put across is the fact that when we become really clear about our values, we somehow there is a much greater understanding, for one the different place that the other person might be coming from the two, there's just more space, there's more space to be able to kind of space and capacity and non judgement. So that, that even an affiliation to a particular church, doesn't mean that x equals y, you know, doesn't mean that it that this is, therefore what's derived from it. So I would just say that this exploration of values actually changes the way we listen, and changes. Also how we communicate. It's really amazing. Like, like this evening, when you when you speak to your daughter, for example, you sharing you even sharing the story or sharing who you are, will and her then sharing who what's important to her at that particular time would already bring a different level of listening and understanding even though the two of you might think you know each other. So, so well. But the conversations that come out of this are just transformational.
Paul Zelizer 24:01
So those are great examples. And somewhere along the way you decided you wanted to write a book, and it's called the values compass. Why did you write this?
Mandeep Rai 24:15
Okay, so you've mentioned parenthood a few times in our conversation already. And I think parenthood does do something to you it. In my case, it made me think about the next generation, what am I giving to the next generation? What am I What are my shoulders, providing them? What is you know, what is the foundation that I'm creating? And how can they leap from that foundation? And so, I had always been told that I should write a book and I thought somewhere at the back of my head, yes, I definitely will. But I had always thought I would do it when I'm ready. tired or when I have time. But when I fell pregnant, I was having a very conversation similar to this. And my friend's friend and I are just as Frank with each other as you and I were just now and thank you for giving me the permission to do that, by the way for that was really nice. It was really, you know, it's those kind of juxtaposition moments that teach us and teach the listeners so much. So thank you. And that my friend, Andy Taylor, was kind of being a similar agent for me in that conversation. And he said, I don't know what you're waiting for, like, this is a moment where you could think about, I was kind of just sharing, I was sharing the fact that I, I felt that I was pregnant, I was telling him, he was the best man at my wedding. So we know each other. You know, we're friends from university, we traveled Australia together, we studied in Australia together, we then we've done a lot together. And so for me to adventure, but I had, you know, that I was about to have my, my first child, there was a moment when I just started crying. And he said, What's overwhelming, you hear and I said, Well, I just want to give this baby like everything, I want to give them all the wisdom from the world, everything I've seen, and more. And he's so clever with ideas and ideas, and so clever with titles and just just a creative genius, frankly, and he just said, write letters to my unborn child, write those letters right now. And immediately was formed this kind of idea of writing these letters from all these different parts of the world that would uplift inspire, sparking enliven, you know, this, this child, I didn't know if it was a boy or a girl. But to give everything I had a more like always to give those 1000s are not just stories and observations grow the 1000s and 1000s of people that I had met all those brilliant leaders and the shoe keener from Columbia, and the wisdom from the kingdom of Bhutan, but also the, the, the the heart and the joy of the community that, you know, the young community I met in Sri Lanka, as we were climbing up this mountain, the dawn, or it will go into this cave called like Gods with Adam's foot, or, you know, the, the, the wisdom from the desert, the depths of the sea, like all of this, get it all. And so my aim was to age literally was just set off on a kind of a challenge. And my aim, were in those nine months, as well as nurturing this baby was to write this book really fast. And I gave it everything I had. But I did not complete, as in, it wasn't the quality that I wanted it to be. So within three months of getting birth, I was pregnant again. And I thought this isn't these nine months, I'm definitely going to do. And so I gave it really the first time around, I literally sat at the Oxford Cambridge club here in the middle of London, I sat in that club every single day to try and get it done. The second time around, what I didn't anticipate is about three months.
Paul Zelizer 28:32
Just a little
Mandeep Rai 28:35
I was just trying to be true two letters to my unborn child so as to try to do over this unborn baby, you know, it's like, okay, no one needs to know his child number two, but I'm still trying to do it. And anyway, I failed miserably, miserably. That was the second time around. And, and now two years have gone into this project already. And I'm nice speaking to you as my children, nine and eight years old. So it's taken me nearly a decade, literally, to bring this piece of work out. Because in the end, it wasn't just about writing. It wasn't just about collecting all those stories. It took a lot of research, it took a lot of further, further delving into all kinds of texts and books, etc. pretty much done all the travel already before my children were born. But I then went on to do a PhD in the subject because as I the seeds of all of this actually were are in Boston, in that there was while I was doing my MBA that we first had this value space, very clear value space conversation. So it's in the office of Professor MIT in North Korea, who now what then went on to become the Dean of Harvard Business School for the next 10 years, actually the first Indian t dean of Harvard Business School, so it was quite an amazing moment. And when they were leading a course called authentic leadership development, and this is a course that I had literally gone to Harvard Business School for. There wasn't actually any space in their particular class. And so they had kindly offered to, kind of, I guess, mentor me once a week. And in those mentorship conversations, came, came about their own journey, like knitting, had a period at the London Business School, where he had been mentored by this incredible Professor called sumantra, gore sharp. And Sumatra, in London Business School had really, you know, known this values, the power of values right from the get go, and how they spoke, how they would act, how they lead, was, I don't know anyone who's met Sumatra, who doesn't, who doesn't know that that was a life changing moment for them. Sumatra has since passed away. But I think when he was talking to little Korea, and to others, they created this kind of thought of an MBA or a to kind of amalgamate all those values, and for business students to take an oath, similar to legal normal, the legal profession, or the medical profession, to take an oath to say you stand for certain values or certain, a certain standard. And that slowly with the, the aim at the time when I was at Harvard, and I am and and the business school student was at Harvard Business School. So I had a year of Teach they, my kind of the challenge that had been set by knitting was, let's take this back to London Business School. But let's not stop there, let's take this to all business schools around the world so that students as this crisis, you might remember in 2008 2009, that was kind of a an economic downturn. And, frankly, businesses and business students had the reputation so nonnamous to use car salesmen, like you had to say why you were worth it, why you were different to those people who were coming out of Enron and then going into prison, like, what how is it that we can trust you. And so this oath became one measure of you can trust us because we're actually going to work for something greater than the parts were not just about shareholder profits, we're here to stand for all stakeholders in society. And as we began to think, and work with these students, we also realize that we need to kind of bridge the gap between the MBA students and the C suite leadership, like why shouldn't this be the global business? Or why shouldn't we take this into businesses so that businesses Take this. And that, really, again, what we're asking businesses to do is to really reflect on their values, essentially, again, to stand for something much, you know, stand for something that's really bold, and contributory, and for social good, and the impact and all the things you said, as you opened up this podcast to be that type of a leader. And we launched this initiative with the young global leaders at the World Economic Forum in Davos, and there was real and his real support for it. And there's almost a yearning for it. Young Leaders today want to want to be are led by their values and want to have the kind of language that enables that, and the frameworks and practices that enable, enable that in a proactive, thought provoking manner that brings out the best in them and the best in their entire team and the best in their entire supply chain, and the community that they're surrounded by, etc, etc. So, you can see that this book that started off with you wanting to write this for the next generation, then became well, why should it you know, although I'm thinking about the next generation children's students, there's also the generation of leaders, and then there's also the kind of people who are in leadership positions, etc, etc. Today, so it morphed into a business leadership book, but which is still applicable and relevant to all those segments of society. The concentric circles from the individual, to your family, to organizations such as schools and academic institutions, to corporations, and NGOs. You know, the huge kind of corporations that I've worked in that you mentioned, the UN, eu, all of them, it reaches them all, because everyone is working according to their values or choosing according to their values. And sometimes you can find yourself in a place where you're not in alignment with your values. And sometimes you have chosen a place where you are, and you know the difference. That's a very long
Paul Zelizer 35:44
a great answer. And so, in a second, I want to ask you men deep about how do you actually like in a operationalized way work with leaders, before we do that, just want to take a minute to hear from our sponsor. So a lot of our listeners are listening, because you have something that is values based, that's about having positive impact in the world. And it's also how you earn at least some or all of your living and you want to grow it, you want to increase your impact, you want to increase your income. If that describes you, one of the best ways I know how to do that is through the medium of podcasting. And let me tell you why. Whether you're on the side of the mic, that man deep is on today, she's in the gassy. I happen to be in the host seat today. It just fits for our kind of businesses. And let me give you some reasons I say that the average podcast episode is just about 43 minutes long, actually 42 minutes and 43 seconds, but we can count up right 43 minutes long. So you have time to go into the nuances Mandy purchased, apologizing, and I'm like, Don't apologize. That's what this podcast is for. So we can go into nuances. We're not doing the 13 word, you know, meme on an Instagram version or a 12 second Facebook ad, we can get into real nuanced, deep conversations where we talk about the multi layers of the complex issues that we face in our times that you face in the impact goals that you're trying to have. podcast listeners are more intelligent. They're more innovative, they like new ideas. They're called early adaptors, and they make more money. That's a pretty unique set of circumstances, you get more time, and you get more space. And your audience is looking for innovative solutions out of the box ones, their community, they're called natural leaders, people turn to them and say what do you know about and they go to podcast to find those new ideas. That sounds pretty interesting to you. Where preggers has something called the podcast success team will help you every step of the way. Learn how to increase your impact and your income by connecting with this incredible audience, the podcast listeners. If you'd like to find out more, go to a wire printers.com forward slash podcast dash success. And thank you to everybody who sponsors this podcast by the podcast access team. So Mandy, talk to us love what you were saying. and talk to us a little bit about Okay, that all sounds good. In theory, I know our listeners pretty well, we're 180 episodes, by the time this one will go live. They're saying this all makes sense. But like what does that mean? On the ground? Right? All these great concepts and values, but can you actually even run a business this way and make money and like, how does it work? And like whose values are we talking? Is it the individual leader or the whole Oregon like that sounds good. But I need more details, help our listeners out.
Mandeep Rai 38:49
I love the way you just described what a podcast is and how a podcast can contribute. And I just want to back up what you just said, you know, there's no a million different podcasts out there. But
Paul Zelizer 39:04
1.3 million exactly because the COVID It blew up and you couldn't even buy a podcast microphone in most of the world early in 2020 because it blew up
Mandeep Rai 39:16
because you can listen to it wherever you are, and you have a most wonderful voice poll. And this is kind of beautiful quality of almost as if I'm listening to the ocean or the wind there this silence and lyrical melodic passing of knowledge but it's done in such a peaceful thought provoking manner. My background is radio like a you know, the BBC World Service radio well voters or whatever, you know the UNDP department of public information and there is such a beautiful quality of the spoken word And silence. And I just, I just want to applaud you. And I just really resonate with your message. And I think that you're almost entering like this secret conversation between two people. And to be able to have the privilege to listen to that, and to learn from that or get in touch with them or build with them. I mean, it is a privilege. It's a wonderful, wonderful invention, really.
Paul Zelizer 40:33
It's like, it's like, I'm like a duck to water when it comes to I'm like, why did I not do this before? But I used to read long form blog posts, because Google likes long form blog posts to market my business. And, you know, I got okay. But like writing like 4000 6000, word blog posts, oh, god, it's painful. And it was nowhere near as helpful. Right?
Mandeep Rai 40:59
Right, and having a real conversation, which can flow in many different ways and actually, just helps you relate to where you are? It's not, it's not like, they had the same dating experiences you or does it have the same career with me, but they will see themselves in each of our experiences, and their listeners will and be able to relate it to? What can it show them about their life or where they are? Or where they wish to be? Or where they don't wish to be?
Paul Zelizer 41:30
Okay, listeners, I did not pay man deep to say that.
Mandeep Rai 41:36
I didn't even know. When you said, we're gonna listen to our sponsor? No, I thought there was a real sponsor who was going to come on, and then it was you.
Paul Zelizer 41:49
Like some meal delivery service, but like this is more relevant to our audience. Check it out listeners, podcasting is a real opportunity. And and I actually have it written down here, if we have time talk about promoting your book, because you've done some really interesting things about promoting and including a podcast or So anyway, but let's
Mandeep Rai 42:09
actually actually pull we can, you know, I would love to talk to you about that. I mean, I guess we should talk about it offline, if you want. But I would love to talk about the values companies podcast, should it be a podcast? Or what would it look like? I've definitely been exploring this. Oh, well, totally.
Paul Zelizer 42:25
I'm making a note, we will have tea, and we will definitely chat cuz, boy, yeah. Yeah. But anyway, so coming back to the book, and this conversation about like, how you're really smart, man, even you've done a lot of interesting things. And you know, Harvard and the United Nations and London Business School, and BBC World, sir, like, you travel in circles that you don't get into, unless you're pretty competent. All right. Most humans, you know, you have to be competent to work in those systems, usually, like Uber competent, right? So I'm with you, and I think our listeners on about that values make a difference in business and in leadership. And, and that's pretty back in the day are still in some circles in some business schools. That's like, wow, but our listeners not a wow, like, duh, we know that. But like, you've thought about this and been engaged and hired by and wrote a book to, for leaders and in organizations like, how can our listeners go from like, the concept values make a difference in leadership and business? Like, can you give them any more nuance, either tips or stories that will help them operationalize this?
Mandeep Rai 43:49
Okay, so firstly, values don't just make a difference. values are the foundation. They are the reason you do what you do. They are, whether you engage them or not, how you are spending your time is a reflection of your values. And if you haven't put any thought into it, I've never really had this conversation with yourself, then your time is being given away and your time is your most precious commodity. It is the you know, more than any other resource you have. Time is the most precious. And so if you think that your health is the most important, which is really what the planet has decided this year, that their health is more important. Well think about how much of our time and how drastically our life has changed. Because we put health as number one as our number one value or priority. What how differently with that, if you had put which which we often did, I think in the past, put ambition as number one or put success at our particular Definition of that as number one. Now going forward, what is your number one, if it's fulfillment, or if it's happiness, or if it's love, or whatever it is, how do you make sure that that actually happens? Now, it could be values could be what you really need, or want, or they could be, the legacy wants to leave. Or there could be some goals you're trying to achieve. Or it could be some, some service that you have to pay, right now, it could be the case that you're looking after your sick parent, it could be the case that you win, or you have young children at this point in life, whatever situation you're in. If you have that values based conversation, conversation with yourself, it is a game changer. Because whether one gives you peace, because you decide you actively decide you're not just, it's not being done to you, you are choosing it. And when you're the agents, when you decide how you're shaping what's important to you, and that you're going to shape your life accordingly. Then there's no room for the tantrum or the quibble or the you know, feeling sorry for himself. There's a period of time for which you've chosen this particular value set. And you can, you can go through life, therefore, or that period, with a greater sense of harmony. This is why literally, the Dalai Lama said that this book leads to greater success, fulfillment and happiness. Because your your values are good, the blueprint of your decisions, and those decisions are then the foundation of, you know, of what your life looks like your behaviors, who you are known as, who you represent who you are represented as, and by. So, I just wanted to kind of correct our, I wanted to just put an emphasis on why I have dedicated this book, and the language that I'm speaking, and this awareness that I'm bringing to values, because if you look at any spiritual text, they're talking about values. If you look at any story, it's a narrative about our values. And if we look at any life, it is a display of that person's values. Actively or subconsciously.
Paul Zelizer 47:46
So we're a group of entrepreneurs man deep, and I think our audience would appreciate me asking you a question about a little bit about the entrepreneur side of this book. And in specific, like, when you look at who's endorsed it, the Dalai Lama, you mentioned the Dalai Lama several times, most of our audience has heard of this dude. Right? Deepak Chopra, the CEOs of MasterCard and Unilever, like you've, you've engaged people who have leveraged in the process of what we might call social capital, right, like giving their endorsements and helping say this book is important in a way you were just describing. How did you do that? Because I think we have a lot of listeners who have a book or something that is about making the world a better place. But not all of them have as effectively been able to engage people who have a reputation and have platforms if we can use that word to help get their message out there. And you've done that very, very successfully. Any any tips or suggestions?
Mandeep Rai 48:54
Okay, so there's two ways I want to answer that question. The first would be when you were speaking about how would I speak to the entrepreneurs that are listening? I thought you were and you did ask me this in the last question. And I think I, I told you about the importance of values instead of ask us answering your question, really. And that was that there's a process that the book takes you through to ascertain what your most important values are. So whether you're an individual, and whatever role you're in, or especially for an entrepreneur, if you go through this process, so that you really know why you're doing what you're doing, the way you're then higher, and the way you're then formulate and create your organization. And most importantly, and now to actually answer the question that you asked me, the way you will enroll other people will have a much greater resonance and vigor and integrity to it, than if you don't do the process. So if you just ambled through life and think, Oh, yes, I'm, you know, I'm writing this book or aim. I don't know, this doesn't apply to your listeners, but there are people who don't necessarily haven't necessarily just done the 15 minute kind of, you know, thinking that I'm suggesting or the, or the process that I'm suggesting. And it and it shows. But if you if you have, and you really know why this, at the moment is running through your veins, why, you know, you've decided to dedicate your life to this product or this service, or, indeed solving this problem, or coming up with a solution, which is what all, you know, good entrepreneurs are doing. And then the way you talk to people, like the data hammer, or the Nobel Prize winner will be in a whole different level, like they will be taken by what you say. Now, full disclosure, I haven't just met these people at a dinner party and say, Hey, would you endorse my book, here's a copy. I've known these people, over many years. So I met his holiness, maybe 18 years ago, for the first time was embedded in shala, in India, and they were holding an audience and giving a talk. And I went in, listen to them. And then kind of you know, you pay your respects. And in India, there's a practice of unit, you might touch one's feet, or you might put a garland or you might offer some, some fruits or something. And so I kind of was in the audience and paid my respects. And then I, through the BBC World Service, I had the opportunity to interview they're kind of second among the Rinpoche. And then I helped the team with some things. And then the next time they came to, and then I was working in New York, and when they came to New York, they let them know and I covered a story. And so, and then we've met each other in London, so we've had like a 15 year, nearly 20 year journey. And this is just in the case of the Dalai Lama. And there, they have known about all the other parts that came before the book. And before this idea, they've known me before, during and after. And so when some of those endorses have said, and finally, like in the case of Deepak Chopra, he's known that I've been struggling to write this for 10 years. And so he wrote, and finally. So I would say, these are one relationships that have been there for a substantial period of time. And to a I really live, breathe. And, you know, there's this passage in the book, it talks about the commitment from Iran, and how, sometimes in Iran, when someone's trying to say, I love you, they might say, I would eat my liver for you, I would drink my slash my wrists. This is how much I read it. It's that type of I'm not talking about drama, and talking about commitment, like giving it your own. And when you were giving it your all, whether you started yesterday, or whether you started 20 years ago, it shows. And so I would say for any of your entrepreneurs out there, don't hesitate don't hide your light under a rock, waiting for it to be right or waiting for it to be ready or waiting for the right, you know, moment. There is no, you're never going to feel like I'm not ready to shine or I'm perfect. Or it's you know, that you're always going to feel as if the following day, you're always going to feel like oh, I could have actually done that. I mean, like, you know, you that's just natural. That's just, you're never going to know everything at one given moment. So, with all that you have, go for it today.
Paul Zelizer 54:09
If anybody wants to see like I'm often asked, How does the word printers podcast how's it getting the traction? Or how is aware printers gotten attraction? You go to the website, and you look at our about page the first thing you see is the where printers core values. So answer Part A or like people know if you're a listener, you know about my spiritual highlighter. So that's that's what you just said, Man deep. I'm just saying like, do I think that that's a load of crap? No, just go look at the about page of our website. It's all about our values. And then there's like a paragraph on the founder because people want to know, but it's all like what you really need to know this is what we're trying to do. And part b i would say, every episode and I do this live, don't put in a spliced in. Here's the fancy intro because I want our guests as they're coming on board to join us in this conversation right? What's aware of printers about the intersection literally a Venn diagram on the website of conscious business social impact and awareness practices? And I say that live because I want to like set this you could think about it as a spiritual ritual on a podcast way earlier way yes exactly way back earlier we used to when we were printers would do things we would literally do a little ritual. Right. And and it took people wanted to get to the content quicker. But this was a way for me to say to the guest, hey, here's the values. Here's what we're trying to do here. Here's the terrain or the the depth we're trying to explore and to displace it in and say hi gasps Okay, tell me about an awareness practice isn't the same as reading those two sentences, it's only two sentences and reading them live with the guests there, they get to kind of find their way into that terrain in a different way than if they don't have that front and center coming into the dialog. So that's the why behind that practice. And you get a sense between those two practices. Do I think this is contributes to real world granular success? I get asked like every day, how do I get more listeners for my podcast is about values and being able to articulate your values in the way p that's how I answer it in the way people can understand in a time, and a format that makes sense for the container that you have. So couldn't agree more man deep. And I'm telling those stories to try to give a listener examples of how we were printers try to operationalize.
Mandeep Rai 56:36
And then there's the power of words, right? What's the difference between one podcast and another between one entrepreneur and another? It's, you know, we know that you don't necessarily put your I didn't put my money into ideas, I would often put my money behind the founder, behind the entrepreneur, behind the person's vision, passion, but really their words, because what else do you have, but if that person is true to their word, so it's one talking about the values that you espoused on your front page, or the page of your podcast, but then there's a second, there's the second of actually being true to those all doing the best you can each and every day, even if it's just 1% better. That's all we can do. But at least we can do that. If you're going to say you're going to do something, we do it. You just are your word. And then the power of your words. I mean, we know it all began with the word. And it'll all end with words.
Paul Zelizer 57:42
And Deepak and Hancock talk to you all day, but I won't do that to you. And I won't do that to our listeners, lots of links and go buy the book listeners like yeah, just go buy the book, right? It's
Mandeep Rai 57:54
a process, it's really worth doing. It's 1520 minutes, it's not one of your classic books that you have to start from the beginning and read to the end, you just dip in, dip out and do that little, you know, process that I'm that I've articulated, and it is a game changer, you put in that 1520 minute work upfront, then how do you go about your day, your week, your month, your year, will have much greater alignment and harmony, if you do so. So just do it as a favor to yourself. Treat yourself
Paul Zelizer 58:32
Monday that there was something you were hoping we'd get to in this dialog. This dialog I have feeling there might be some others between you and I, but in this dialogue about, you know, this topic of the values compass and how it can make a difference in leadership and conscious business. And we haven't gotten to it yet. Or there's something you want to leave our listeners with, besides go buy the book listeners an idea, a concept of practice that they can take with them as we bring this dialogue to a close, what would that be?
Mandeep Rai 59:06
I would say if they this evening, tomorrow at some point when they next have dinner with somebody, whether it be their family members, their parents, their children, their loved one, their best friend, I would encourage them to share maybe one value that they kind of had might have admired in someone or either in a hero or in in whomever one value that they have admired for a long time. And if it's important to them, and if they wish for it to be more in their life, which I you know it hasn't a guest they might because that's why they admire it. Then to maybe set themselves Have a little challenge as to how they're going to bring it in just for the next 21 days, because we know it only takes 21 days to build a habit. So why not? Why not just give it a go with something that you've decided is important to you. And equally to ask the and equally to ask the other, and the people that you're having dinner with, to do the same.
Paul Zelizer 1:00:29
Beautiful practice. And deep. Thank you so much for being on the show today.
Mandeep Rai 1:00:35
Thank you very, very much for having me. And I've not only thoroughly enjoyed it, but yes, I know that you and I will be talking and therefore hopefully many other people will be talking to you about the very same topic, the power of podcasts. Thanks. Thank you.
Paul Zelizer 1:00:54
So that's all the time we have for today's show. Thank you so much for listening. Before we want to go, I just want to thank you for your time and attention. I want to say please, please take really good care. As we're listening to this here in the US. We're seeing spikes and COVID like just so steep, please take care of yourself and your loved ones as best. And thank you for all the positive impact that you're working toward.