185 | Embracing Yoga's Roots with Susanna Barkataki
Our guest this week on the pod is Susanna Barkataki. Susanna is a Speaker, Author, Teacher, and Yoga Culture Advocate. Her new book is called Embrace Yoga's Roots.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
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Susanna Barkataki Awarepreneurs Interview
SPEAKERS: Paul Zelizer, Susanna Barkataki
Paul Zelizer 00:02
Hi, this is Paul Zelizer, and welcome to another episode of The Awarepreneurs Podcast. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things, conscious business, social impact, and awareness practices. Each episode, I do a deep dive interview with a thought leader in this intersection. Someone who has market tested experience and is already transforming many lives. Before I introduce our topic, and our guest today, I have one request. If you could go over to iTunes or whatever app you're listening to this show on and do a rating and a review. That helps tremendously. Thank you so much for considering. Today I'm thrilled to introduce you to my colleague, Susanna Barkataki. And our topic today is Embracing Yoga’s Roots. Suzanna is a speaker, an author, teacher, trainer, and a yoga culture advocate. her new book, which I'm really excited to telling you about, is called Embrace Yoga’s Roots. Susanna, welcome to the show.
Susanna Barkataki 00:58
Hello, Paul. Thank you for having me here.
Paul Zelizer 01:01
So Susanna, were called Awarepreneurs. And one of the ways we like to get to know somebody is to ask you about a wellness or an awareness practice that you personally use to bring your resilient self you're most resourceful to the work day after day, week after week.
Susanna Barkataki 01:18
So Paula, I'd love to share with you and the listeners is for us to do the practice together rather than just me talk about it. And so for everyone listening, if you would, and if you would like to take a moment, wherever you are, if you're walking, washing dishes, driving, obviously keep your eyes open, keep driving, keep walking. But take a moment to focus on your breath. And so I'll invite you to simply be aware as you inhale, have the full length of your inhale. And then as you exhale, become aware of the full length of your exhale. And, and out. If you would like you can bring a word, maybe a word that you need more quality that you'd like to cultivate. So you might sound like this. Inhale, calm. Exhale, smile. Inhale, calming. Exhale, smiling. We'll take one more breath together. By doing these kinds of breath practices, really, any opportunity to take a moment to come back to myself and to come back to presence helps support me in being there. You know, whatever I'm doing, whether it's parenting, or you know, teaching a workshop or teaching a yoga class, just taking a moment to center myself before I do it is always helpful.
Paul Zelizer 03:13
I certainly felt myself just calm down. It's, I'm, well as we're recording this tomorrow, I go on a two and a half week vacation, I start a tune. So I've been like, like, kind of amped up, you know, like, the horse that smells close to the barn, right? And I can be an energetic person to begin with. I was like, just Oh, wow. I'm kind of amped up and just found myself settling diamond. I already sat meditation today. I just really notice the difference in those few breaths. Thank you for that. Talk to us a little bit. Suzanna about like yoga. It's been such a huge part of your life. And not just personally but also professionally, like, when did you start to have yoga on your radar? When did you start to get like, quite intimate with it in terms of like, this is something I want to do professionally?
Susanna Barkataki 04:09
Yes, you know, Yoga has always been a part of my life. And I wanted to find yoga for a moment for those people listening who, you know, might be thinking, well, I could never do yoga, or I'm not flexible, or I can't touch my toes or stand on my head. So I don't need to listen to this episode. Truly, Yoga means union. And so anything that brings us closer to union with ourselves and with people we love and also all other beings is yoga. And of course at first I didn't understand that or know that. But yoga was a backdrop in my life as someone who has a family from India from Assam in the northeast and Bengal in the northeast as well. And so most of my family would, you know, say I was stressed out before a test. They were Give me a practice somewhat like the one we did at the beginning of this conversation. Or they might say, oh, use this particular herb or do you know, chant this mantra, and it'll support you in the endeavor, the thing that you're going to do. And so, I at first just kind of took yoga for granted, to be honest, it was part of my way of life part of my culture, and how I grew up. But also what I grew up with was a lot of discrimination for being who I am mixed Indian and British, a brown person, you grew up me born in England, and then growing up in the United States. And so, you know, we heard things I heard things like go home, or later, even was called a terrorist, you know, things that that you never want any child to hear. But unfortunately, young people today who come from, from a background that is not centered in normative culture, people might hear, you know, and people might experience and so, as I grew up with all of those messages, externally, I fought, you know, you talk about being a very like, like an active person, I'm also a really physical and active person. And I ended up having to physically fight for my, for my life, in many cases, and also just on my block with with the kids who were being discriminatory towards me and my brother. But the thing was, I wasn't just fighting outside those words, and those messages went inside. And I started to internalize this view, or this feeling that I was less than this feeling that I wasn't as good that I would never measure up, and that I was always going to be inferior. And maybe folks listening can relate to that for various reasons. I think there's a lot of messages we get, and a lot of ways that we can feel where we're not as good as others. And so for me, you know, when I was in my teens and 20s, I was so disconnected. So the opposite of yoga, you know, like my, my brain, and my body, my heart were all separated, I was really, you know, would run into polls, walking on the street fall down, you know, it was like really evident that there was something wrong, wrong from the inside out and also wrong, just on the outside. And so, really kind of at the end of my rope, I turned to a yoga asana practice. And through that, practice, I remember being in a class where I was in child's pose, which is kind of where you're balled up like a little rock, on on your mat, or on the ground, or on a rug, or on the bed, wherever you want to practice yoga. And just crying but not crying, because I was sad crying, because I finally felt a sense of connection again, with myself, and also a way, a way back home a way to unity that in myself, and through that, I realized, Oh, the very thing I've been made fun of for, I need to go and learn more about and I need to go and explore and then bring into my life as a full practice. So yoga really has been a path of unity for me individually, like for my soul for myself. And then what I realized is that is that for everyone, and so that's why I'm passionate about teaching it. Nice.
Paul Zelizer 08:32
And I'm really sorry, you had that experience is like, would even say, I'm remembering when I was in high school and one of the, like a, somebody I knew I wasn't close with but hung out in similar circles, painted a swastika on our house or Jewish family, meaning a swastika in our house. You know, on one Halloween, and I just like those experiences of disconnect and in different thing and other thing and just I'm so sorry, you had that I'm so so sorry that that happened?
Susanna Barkataki 09:10
And yeah, and I'm sorry, that happened to with a swastika, that must have been really, really terrifying. And I think people don't, you know, they don't really realize sometimes they think these things are history, or they don't impact us, but they can be so impactful. Or even if we're dealing with it, you know, like, or we've dealt with it for folks who who've been in marginalized, you know, situations or marginalized identities. Sometimes it's just that permission to say, yeah, that really was hard. And that has impacted me and and in some ways, like drives what I do or shapes what I do or how I show up. And so from all those perspectives, I think, my hope is that these stories and these experiences open us to like a kind of compassion or global empathy.
Paul Zelizer 10:00
Yeah. And, and one of the things that I've learned, you know, that was that was really challenging because here I am a Jew and these very, you know, waspy suburbs very white, very waspy. And like my culture was a was like a strike against my humanity. Right, and how you looked and your tradition was a strike against your humanity. And yet, yoga, which was from your tradition, and the same thing that is like giving you these ouchy really painful, challenging, dehumanizing experiences, it's also become a path that you've poured your heart into, and are helping so many people in the ways we're going to share in the rest of this episode. What a what a, like, heart wrenching and beautiful at the same time way you dealt with those heart wrenching experiences, leveraging your culture, using your culture, both for your own healing, but now to be in the world, helping others just I I'm sorry, and I honor how you've dealt with it, and how you've leveraged your culture and embraced your culture, just like, and now we're sharing it what, uh, yeah. I'm not quite sure what else to say, but to honor what you've what you've shared with us and what you've done with that pain.
Susanna Barkataki 11:21
Thank you, Paul. Yes. And I, you know, that's like the heart of it. Right is we all may experience separation. I mean, in some ways, the nature of the human condition is kind of a feeling of separation or suffering. And so then it's like, well, what can we turn to what can we rely on, to bring us forward to bring us up both individually and as a community, with our families, our communities, and then, you know, folks as a whole, and for me, the path of yoga, which is not a religious path, you know, for some people it might be, but it in itself is not religious, it's a path of liberation. It's a, it's a laboratory practice. And so that's why it's been so impactful. I think, for me, and for so many others, you know, there may be people listening who do practice yoga, and who have experienced that as well. And for those who haven't, the hope is that it's accessible enough, that it can be something that people can turn to, to feel a little more peace or a little more calm, or a little bit more centered. One to like, maybe performed better on, you know, in their job, or to come up with quick solutions, or pivot in something like what we've experienced with the pandemic, and global, you know, recession, depression, but also, for simple things like, enjoying, I don't know, like our pleasure practices, or the time we spend with our families more. All of that, for me is part of what yoga gives all of us.
Paul Zelizer 12:57
You're talking Suzanne, about. It's a liberatory practice. And I've referenced this listeners, I've referenced this episode before, but Desiree Adaway who I'm pretty sure, you know, we did an episode on liberatory consciousness and, and yoga as liberatory consciousness practice, like you, I think of you that way. It's not just about the physical postures or, you know, the meditations, or, you know, the other branches of the yoga tree, all of which my sense of you my story of you is, it's very, you're impeccable in the tradition and care about it, and teach it with a great deal of care. But it's also that liberatory piece, and also the ways that so much of Yoga has not been connected to the culture and has actually been appropriated, and how you've named that and how you're modeling something different, is one of the reasons I'm so excited that you're here. So can you talk to us a little bit, Suzanna about some of the appropriation you've seen in yoga? I've heard a teacher call that yoga was not meant to make you look good in yoga pants. Right? That version of yoga, if that's the only thing you're teaching, it's probably not very deeply rooted in yoga. And you have a lot to say about that. And the contrast of that of how you bring that liberatory consciousness to us, you know, honor, desert raise languaging. How do you, you know, balance the practice that people come to you for bringing up that appropriation oftentimes does happen in yoga, as well as many, many other spiritual traditions in the United States and other Western or developed countries. And how do you start to bring that the theme of liberation into the actual practice?
Susanna Barkataki 14:57
You know, that's such a powerful question. And I think a lot about how there are all these doorways. And so the physical practice can be a doorway, which is a wonderful way to come in. But when we have a yoga practice that's just physical or that's focused on, you know, getting stronger ABS or, you know, whatever, whatever the, it's billed as you know, it, it takes away from the full expanse of what yoga can be, which is a spiritual, codified, organized system of personal and social liberation. And so let me break that down a little bit, because people might not know that they're, you know, and potentially the yoga sutras which, you know, it's a, it's a system of 195 96 aphorisms that goes through a way to practice yoga. And in it, he talks about the Ashtanga Yoga path, which is not Ashtanga Yoga, physical practice, but an eightfold path that starts with yoga ethics. And then has inner yogic codes like practices that we do it for ourselves as another physical practice pranayama, the breath practice pratyahara, which is mindfulness. And like sensory awareness, observing what you put your senses on, and then focusing your senses in. And then there's darna, which is a kind of awareness practice, really, anything you do can be an opportunity to practice yoga with darna. It's just mindfulness of whatever you're doing. And then Deanna meditation and Samadhi, which is freedom, and liberation. And so when people just focus on yoga as the physical, they're missing, all the other ways that yoga can, can support each person in their lives. And so just to share a story about this, when I was living in Bihar, which is one of the poorest regions of India, and I was learning, you know a lot about the different aspects of the yoga tradition, yoga’s roots, from my teacher, Shankar Ji, he would sit with villagers who normally wouldn't have been able to access these teachings. And a lot of what he did was just listen to their problems, listen to what was going on in the village. say they weren't able to get fresh water, and they had to walk a long way to get water for their families. And through listening, and then creating a plan for other people who are in that study session or in that conversation to help go and do some physical labor to actually get the village access to clean water. Everyone in that context, was experiencing, you know, the philosophy of yoga, Yana the wisdom portion of yoga, but then also the karma yoga, the action, the yoga, the action. And so it was this beautiful circle and cycle of learning, and then applying that learning right away to doing the very next action that made the most sense. And so, you know, yoga can be so many more things than just like a downward facing dog or handstand. And so the appropriation of yoga happens right there, when we oversimplify what Yoga is, and also deny ourselves or other people access to the richness of these other parts of the path, you know, like Karma Yoga, the yoga of action, bhakti yoga, the yoga of devotion, or Yana yoga, the yoga of studying, there's so much more available. And then you've also got, you know, kind of the more commonplace appropriation that we see which might be and I think about business owners, right, because it's tough. As a business owner, I think sometimes we want to make what we're doing more cool or more cutting edge or more trendy, and pair things together in a way that brings the audience in or makes it look like we're doing something in a cool new way. But unfortunately, when you have like yoga paired with alcohol or yoga paired with, I don't know, like a certain style of music that isn't, isn't part of the culture. It can really water down and even like go across purposes to the aims and the intentions of yoga and so shirts like you know, nama stay in bed or nama slay, these are things that are actually harmful to the lineage holders and to the stewards of the tradition and in there also not really, I think, in today's culture and time, they're not effective ways. You know, procreation just isn't good business. It's problematic. It's harmful, and it's not going to lead people to succeed.
Paul Zelizer 20:01
So appreciate your naming nod and listeners, we'll put a link to the book in the show notes really encourage you to go get it and Susanna, you go into some of this in the book about what are some of these more fuller bodied, more for bandwidth, expressions of yoga in the book. So I really want to encourage people to check it out. Why write this book? And why write it now? Why is it important in this time? That is, so can we say there's a lot of, it's always challenged in a modern world to be embodied? And to be somebody who's paying attention on these levels that you're talking about? But it seems like it's particularly challenging in this time, when like, some of us our whole work life is happening through these little computer screens. How do you be embodied there? Like, like, why is this important now?
Susanna Barkataki 20:58
Huh? Yes. Well, exactly like you said, you know, for for many of us, yoga, the physical practice can perhaps bring a little bit more ease, like taking a moment. And if anyone's, as you're listening, I invite you to do this with me. Take a moment. And as you inhale, you can just lift your shoulders up towards your ears, and then exhale will hold them back and down. And so stretching out the upper body. And then if you would like you can even lift your arms up towards the sky, and then exhale them down and back behind you just a little bit towards the Earth. simply taking a moment to stretch, and then lengthen through your spine and up through the crown of your head, and root down into the earth through your feet, or through your seat, wherever you are. Taking even just a few breaths like that, like we did at the beginning or stretching, moving the body can allow us to be more effective at what we do. Now, yoga is not here, though, to make us more effective producers and consumers in society, it's also here, to really speak to our souls and to speak to our purpose, our deeper purpose. And I think this year, you know, for me, and maybe for you, and I think for many of us, we're facing questions about mortality, questions about what is the purpose of life? And why have these things happened? And why is there so much suffering? And what can I do about it? And maybe for some of us, we've, we've had those questions for many years, our whole lives, but as a society, we're facing that. And so why this book now is, and why this work now, really the work of embracing whatever tools, helping you to be more of yourself, so you can show up in your life and in your community to offer service liberation support, share your gifts with the world, is, you know, we're in the pandemic of, of racial inequity. It's so on the surface of our consciousness, as a nation and really, in the world. And we also are dealing with this global health pandemic, and an environmental crisis and an economic crisis. And so if not, now, if we don't look at the causes of separation within ourselves and outside of ourselves. What I have experienced is when I wasn't actually looking at those things, I wasn't able to move towards healing them. And so the book guides us on a step by step process, to look at separation, the causes of separation, where they exist, including, you know, racial injustice, and inequity and other kinds of inequity as well reflect on our own parts in it. And where we stand, you know, and what privileges or dis privileges we have to reconnect through action, and move towards like, what positive next steps can I you? We do? And then finally, to tune into that souls call of liberation, what does liberation look feel like? What what are the practices that can support you in experiencing your highest and best self and doing that in connection with your community? And so for me, it's like, there is no better time. This is exactly the time to do this. And I think more and more people are open to and are seeking for kind of tool kit to explore. Maybe their eyes are just becoming open. And maybe they've known about this for a long time. But it's it's a process and almost like a workbook that you can come back to and work your way through again and again, again, because, you know, I hope these problems go away in our lifetime, but But I think that we're the way I look at it is we're kind of warriors of, of light and human uplift. And we're, we're here to do our best to bring a golden era of change to the world if we can, you know, while we're here,
Paul Zelizer 25:16
there's some work to do, isn't there?
25:20
Really? Really?
Susanna Barkataki 25:22
Yeah. And I mean, I don't know if you're open to me asking you a question, Paul.
Paul Zelizer 25:25
But Totally,
Susanna Barkataki 25:26
yeah, but I think, you know, when you think about aware printers, it's like, as an entrepreneur, who's bringing that inner work of awareness. Why is this important to you?
Paul Zelizer 25:40
It's a great question. Susanna, um, you know, many wisdom traditions, including the one that I grew up in the mystical part of Judaism say the most significant thing a human has is our attention. The language of it, in Kabbalah is different than the language of its Susanna and yoga tradition, but like that, that wisdom is there. And if you look at in modern life, you know, I love to travel run, I love my friends and my family, I play guitar, I love to cook, like I love a lot of things, right. And, and I work more than all of them. Just sheer number of hours, right? The only thing I do more than work asleep, and, you know, and so there's just, it's the highest concept I work less than, certainly most Americans, certainly a lot less than most Americans and weak. So it's the highest concentration of human attention on planet Earth, just sheer number of hours. And our attention is the most sacred and powerful thing we have. And when a human beings go into work, and it's aligned with their values, the ripple effects of some of the problems you're talking about so much. There's they're much wiser people than me have articulated very clearly, you know, the how economics play into structural issues of racism, for instance, right? If somebody is bringing their values into how they're earning their money, some of that stuff, you know, the environmental issues, the miserable, just emotional human experience of being disengaged and non aligned with your work and how that shows up in terms of physical problems. There's so many ripple effects of humans going to work and doing things that aren't aligned with our values. And that's the highest concentration of our time, energy and attention. If you move the lever there, Boy, that's a powerful lever to pull off. Right? It's like, if I want positive change in the world, I'm going to go right where the horsepower is. And I don't know of anything that has more horsepower in the modern world than what we do to earn our money to bring food to our families. So that's why I do what I do.
Susanna Barkataki 27:53
So powerful. Yeah. And there is this connection, I think, especially in the world that we're in between how we make our living and our spiritual lives. And in yoga, I think sometimes there's a myth that those things are separated. But Yogi's, were not you know, some Yogi's are obviously renunciant, and focus on just the attainment of the spirit and not of the body or you know, circumstance. But many were very practical, very kind of heuristic and having, having ways and tools to teach and practice that would better their own lives on all levels. And so I think that's, this is such a beautiful reason and connection for why you do what you do.
28:45
Thank you.
Paul Zelizer 28:47
So let's do this in a moment. Has anyone asked you about some of the specifics of how you do what you do and the different ways you work with people and the book and how you're marketing all the good social entrepreneur questions. But before we do that, I just want to take a short break and hear a word from our sponsor. You have something that you'd like to have more impact with. And you'd also like to raise your income doing it. If you do, I'd like to invite you to consider how podcasting might be useful. Why am I so passionate about podcasting when it comes to impact oriented business people? The average podcast episode is 42 minutes and 43 seconds long. Think about that for a minute. It's not like a meme that you put up on Instagram where you get like 13 words, or 12 seconds to add in a Facebook ads video. You really have time to go into nuance and depth and intersections and unpack things and share and tell stories. You can laugh and it's just one of the most relational operations Unity's to connect with people at scale that I've ever seen. And podcast listeners are more open to new ideas. We call them early adaptors, their natural leaders, people in their networks, their colleagues and their families and their friends turn to them and to find new ideas in the things that they're interested in. And they listen to podcasts specifically to get innovative ideas, and they make more money. That's a pretty powerful combination. It's not like most opportunities to share what you're doing, and to, you know, invite new people to learn about it. So we're printers has a podcast success team. And if you'd like to get some help thinking about how you can be a guest and do that skillfully, like Suzanne is in the guest seat today or be a host, I happen to have the honor of being a host today, or you want to do both. What we'll do is show you how you can leverage podcasting to get to these incredibly smart and engaged and innovation oriented and making more money audiences. And do it in a way that's both highly aligned with your values is very effective in terms of both your impact and your income goals. If you'd like to learn more, you can find out at aware printers.com, forward slash podcast dash success. And thank you to everybody who's in the podcast success team and is sponsoring this podcast. So yeah, Suzanne, and the second half of the show, we like to put on her entrepreneurial glasses. And we've talked about the book, and some of what's in it. And again, there's a link in the show notes, but talk to us, like, you know, just when did you launch it and anything you've learned about writing a book with great care and depth and trying to sync that up with your personal impact and income goals?
31:49
Huh?
Susanna Barkataki 31:50
Yes. You know, it's so funny, Paul, because as an entrepreneur, so much of what I do has multiple bottom lines, you know, I usually have a financial bottom line, and impact bottom line and a movement bottom line, like how am I going to shift culture or shift the conversations happening in a particular demographic or a particular industry? And so it's, it's a fascinating thing, because when I choose what I say yes to and when I have to look at all of those. And so with this book, it was it was. And then I guess the one other bottom line is like, just the personal satisfaction, right? Like, where, where's this feeding my soul or what I wish to do in the world, and they all kind of have to line up for a project to come to fruition for me, the impact the income, and then the personal realization, and, and it has to be meaningful for people for the community. I started blogging in 2014. And in 2014, I wrote a blog every single day. And
Paul Zelizer 33:06
every single week, every single day, I was like, wow, that
Susanna Barkataki 33:10
that would be no, but honestly, every single week was hardcore. Because I was working. I was parenting. You know, it was a lot to do. And sometimes it would take me days to write write a particular blog, but for the whole first year, No One No One, you know, my mom would would write back Oh, nice blog, Suzanna, or my best friend would be like, Who Who is this? It doesn't sound like you, you know, and I'm so grateful for that reflection, and folks who are on their, their entrepreneurial journeys, or even who are really successful, I think, there comes this point, when it's like, what we're sharing in the world is just a greater and greater depth or deep dive into who we truly are, and how we want to be, like you said, in relationship with others. And at the end of that year, I wrote a blog called How to decolonize your yoga practice. And it was off book off script. It wasn't one of my plan, you know, like weekly wellness blogs. And I hit Send and publish, and post it on Facebook and neck then it was like two in the morning after I'd come back from a puja. I was just feeling really like tender around the practices of yoga, having been exploited and co opted, hit post and posted it and then woke up and like 150 people had shared it. And there were like, 1000 likes, and this is the first time that anyone beyond people I knew were resonating with my words. And I couldn't believe it. You know, it was it was pretty overwhelming. And it just kept going and this point this this article is like, you know, been published in countless different journals, and has It's been shared hundreds of 1000s of times. But I share that to say, the journey to writing a book started with those blogs that got no responses. And it's because there was a story that needed to be told there was a passion in me and a fire in me that needed to have a vehicle for its expression. And there may be for folks listening something in you where you're like, Ah, this thing I really believe in, and I have to share about it, or I'm really upset by it, and I need to write about it or speak about it or teach about it. And so following that passion, consistently, I think was the seed that came into the book. But the second piece of it is, you know, people didn't really want my like, five ways that yoga helps you, you know, be more times in your life, they didn't want the How to tips they really wanted from me, the cultural conversation, because I have a particular background, as you know, just from my personal life experiences that I shared earlier, dealing with so much racism and separation and discrimination, and then going through a high school program, and then teaching at that high school program that looked at us and world history through the lens of racism, sexism, colonization, and decolonization, I had that knowledge, kind of like, in the fiber of who I am, it's just a perspective that I bring to the world. And so when I realized this thing, that's just part of me, compared with this other thing that I really care about, and people want to hear me talk about it or learn more about it. That's when the book turns turn from just blogs into like, Oh, this needs to be it was actually a workbook at first, you know, usable manual that people could, could explore. And then I realized, too, I had to do it, justice, right, I couldn't just write this thing and throw it up on my website, but really take time to build a launch plan, and get the word out in a way that magnified the message, since I believe in the message, so much of yoga is social justice, yoga is a pathway to personal and social freedom and liberation, to do that, right. And so, you know, from the business side, writing a book is like, obviously, if to write the book, and I wrote it in, I believe, like 2018 2019. And then all of this year was like the logistics of self publishing. And then bringing together a launch team, asking for early endorsements. And then sharing about it, you know, it takes a lot of behind the scenes work, I think, to bring a book to the world, and then also amplify it and people might not realize that, you know that it's not just writing the book, it's also sharing about the book that's impactful as well.
Paul Zelizer 38:00
I'd say it only takes up this high in the scenes work, if you want to do well. And if you want to sell any copies besides to your mom and your girlfriends, right. Some people write a book and they sell 17 copies and the other 400 that they bought sit in the garage, and that's okay with them. But I hear you loud and clear, you want to have impact on that writing a book is incredibly powerful, but there's so much work that goes into it. So just the deep value for Yeah, for doing that work and doing it with care
Susanna Barkataki 38:30
and intention. And I think also for people who are, you know, listening who are thinking about like building their expertise, right. And like you said, speaking or talking or teaching, this book fits into a specific, you know, it I almost it's like funny to call it a niche, because I don't really think it's a niche. It's like a, it's a particular I almost think of it as a river of knowledge in the field of yoga. And that river that I focused in on really was cultural issues, and specifically cultural appropriation. And so because I chose to speak on that I became specialized, because before I wrote the book, I was still talking to people and going on podcast because I focused in on something that I have some knowledge about, and that they really care about and so for people listening, I think, you know, choosing not necessarily in like a niche way because that can feel a little bit overwhelming or stressful or pigeon holing, but like, what's a river that you want to ride on for a while, you know, where do you want to go? whitewater rafting? I'm sure you do some of that. Where do you want to go? Or maybe it's a lazy river and you just want to go down this path for a little while talking about a particular subject and through doing that, people then see you as that expert or that teacher or that person that cares so much about a topic. And it really it was through doing that that a lot of the business side of what I do. I mean you You know, I get asked to teach and yoga teacher trainings or even to train big companies in the yoga and wellness space about cultural sensitivity and cultural issues. And I'd love to do those things. But I only got to do them because I focused in on a particular aspect. If I was still just teaching yoga, generally, I don't think I'd be doing any of these things.
Paul Zelizer 40:23
Well, that Suzanne, and again, listeners, even if Yoga is not your primary modality, how you bring that awareness of cultural appropriation, because far beyond the yoga space, in my opinion, so even if you're like yoga is not my thing I do fill in the blank, either embodied or meditation, I go get the book listeners, because so cultural appropriation is such a problem in so many of the spaces that our listeners move in, can't encourage you to please go get the book, in addition to the book, Suzanna, before we let you go, I want to ask you about your teacher training, like it's so many people here you are doing embodied practice, as you know, like literally in the studio and going to other studios and teaching workshops, and then along comes COVID. Boom, like we actually even we didn't mention this before we had an episode in the can that was supposed to come out right about when COVID came out. And we checked in and it's like, well, boy, I don't I think that conversation we had isn't quite as relevant anymore. And now I'm so glad we waited. One of the things you brought more attention to his teacher training and doing it in this very aware of the roots of yoga. Yeah, that that's baked into what you're doing. Talk to us a little bit about that part of your work.
Susanna Barkataki 41:42
Yeah, I'd love to, I mean, my first passion is teaching. And I'd love to teach in a way that brings any subject alive and kind of creates this web of learning where each person plus the topic like whatever it is, that we're learning, and the teachers are these jewels of knowledge that we weave together to create greater understanding. And my joy really is those group dynamics of taking a container and having people be in it over, you know, almost like a college semester or over a year. And we get to learn and see one another in our beautiful and lovely and inspired times. And then our most challenging, tired, exhausted, you know, like disbelieving times and still show up and find the transformation. That In my case, you know, it's yoga teacher training, the transformation that yoga training has to offer us to create more embody leadership. So I love teaching yoga teacher trainings online. And Paul, I did not believe that I could do a ytt a yoga teacher training online. COVID hit right. And up until this point, I'd always run in person trainings, many people may have you know that that issue as well like, in person business. And yet, I had just started a 200 hour a foundational level training. And so I thought, Okay, well, I have a choice, I can either say, Well wait till COVID xover. Get back in person. But you know, I believe that it was going to be a while. And this is back in March. And says I said, All right, we're all going to go online. And I was so just floored honestly, by how incredible. The experience was with teaching and learning yoga online, there was more that we can do, actually, in terms of giving personal cueing to students to seeing their practice in their home environment, to helping scaffold them as leaders and teachers of not just Asana but all of yogic philosophy and practice. And so after that, I was like, Oh, I'm totally gonna do this full on. And so I brought my program completely online, and have, you know, basically pre recorded lectures, plus weekly live calls where we take that knowledge that people are hungry for, and then apply it. And so I've been having the most fun, you know, and also it's, it's been really impactful for my business, because before, I'm in Orlando, Florida, and there were maybe a 10 people interested in the kind of yoga like the full expanse of yoga and yoga and social justice, that wanted to do a training in this way. But now when, when I'm online, and there's a whole, you know, world of people who are interested, I'm able to actually have more impact and the business is more sustainable. And not only that, I can hire and bring in incredible teachers, one of whom is our mutual friend and colleague, Sonali Fisk, and so many other folks of color, folks who are from marginalized groups who normally wouldn't ever have been able to come in and teach their brilliance in this training. And so it's just like a win win win win win for the students for the teaching team. All around. It's, it's such a joy.
Paul Zelizer 45:13
And we'll put a link to the teacher training knowledge website into the book and all the things we've mentioned here. Susanna, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom with us today.
Susanna Barkataki 45:26
Thank you, Paul, I appreciate you and for everyone listening to so grateful for you sending so much care and so much honor and gratitude.
Paul Zelizer 45:38
That's all the time we have today. Before we go, just one more thing. We love listener suggested topics and guests. So if you have an idea, just go to the aware printers website, go to our contact page, and it has kind of the three checkboxes we look for. And if it feels like it's a good fit, please tell us about it. Some of our best episodes come from who our listeners think should be on the show. So for now, I just want to say thank you so much for listening. Please take really good care. It's intense times. And thank you for all the positive impact that you're working towards in our way